Outside Concert Speakers

[kerry davies]

Plus one for sleah's post. I used to use HK Lucas systems in pairs to do much what you want and don't understand why you don't want active speakers. Your backline amps and kit will be "active" anyway. Be that as it may, hire some kit on trial first before buying.

 

What intrigues me is the outdoor stage built of wood. Who built it, is it covered, do you have photos and has it been structurally tested? Don't get me wrong but outdoor stages in wood are unusual. I have built staging out of cardboard boxes indoors for a photo shoot of a truck on top and many other odd structures but never a completely wooden stage left permanently outdoors. I don't have either the design or joinery skills and I certainly couldn't sign off on the structural properties of the timber.

 

Which campus is this stage on? From maps and satellite neither have large fields and both of them are close to housing and large roads.

[Jupton24]

Plus one for sleah's post. I used to use HK Lucas systems in pairs to do much what you want and don't understand why you don't want active speakers. Your backline amps and kit will be "active" anyway. Be that as it may, hire some kit on trial first before buying.

 

What intrigues me is the outdoor stage built of wood. Who built it, is it covered, do you have photos and has it been structurally tested? Don't get me wrong but outdoor stages in wood are unusual. I have built staging out of cardboard boxes indoors for a photo shoot of a truck on top and many other odd structures but never a completely wooden stage left permanently outdoors. I don't have either the design or joinery skills and I certainly couldn't sign off on the structural properties of the timber.

 

Which campus is this stage on? From maps and satellite neither have large fields and both of them are close to housing and large roads.

 

the stage is being made out of wood it is massive logs bound together and supported structurally together. it is not my idea but I was told it needed sound so here I am. I believe it is covered and it is next to a brick building. I will definatly check out the hk Lucas system it looks just right for what the school needs

[Dave m]

Who designed the stage and what structural qualifications have they got?Google "stage disasters" to see what happens

Is outdoor power properly installed?

[Jupton24]

Who designed the stage and what structural qualifications have they got?Google "stage disasters" to see what happens

Is outdoor power properly installed?

 

Hi, sorry but I don't know who made it this is kind of what it looks like but it has a back section and sides to it

a better one is this

Edited July 17, 2019 by Jupton24

[TeeJay]

Hi,

 

thanks for keeping the info coming - nice to have someone posting who actually replies after the initial enquiry.

 

You've had some good advice already so I'll try not to repeat what has been said previously in this thread but a couple of other things to consider:

 

If that £10K is to be spent in one hit, it's likely you will need to get at least three quotes for equipment from different suppliers. You need to track down a copy of your college's procurement policy, or at least some guidance on Cap Ex (Capital Expenditure).

 

As well as checking your local suppliers (check with your music/creative departments and see who they use currently) have a look at companies that have a national presence. By no means an exhaustive list but known names in the industry include Stage Electrics, Hawthorns, Autograph and SSE Audio (all of whom have install experience alongside audio hires.)

The forums own MarkPAMan works for SFL who may also be able to assist.

 

Do you need to factor in speakers for the stage itself? Musicians may not always bring their own monitors and if there is ever a plan to have some measure of performance on the stage, you'll need speakers for them in addition to the main PA.

 

Briefly mentioned elsewhere but do put some consideration into how the cables get from from the mixing desk to the amps and speakers, particularly if the desk is not by the stage and mechanical aids to transport everything from it's store to the position around the stage.

 

Lastly, I'm in agreement this is something that should go via professional for whom their day job is supplying kit for a budget. By all means, bounce ideas or ask questions of the forum. But deal with the people who are paid to do this, and who can be held accountable if something goes amiss ...

 

Good luck!

[Jupton24]

Hi,

 

thanks for keeping the info coming - nice to have someone posting who actually replies after the initial enquiry.

 

You've had some good advice already so I'll try not to repeat what has been said previously in this thread but a couple of other things to consider:

 

If that £10K is to be spent in one hit, it's likely you will need to get at least three quotes for equipment from different suppliers. You need to track down a copy of your college's procurement policy, or at least some guidance on Cap Ex (Capital Expenditure).

 

As well as checking your local suppliers (check with your music/creative departments and see who they use currently) have a look at companies that have a national presence. By no means an exhaustive list but known names in the industry include Stage Electrics, Hawthorns, Autograph and SSE Audio (all of whom have install experience alongside audio hires.)

The forums own MarkPAMan works for SFL who may also be able to assist.

 

Do you need to factor in speakers for the stage itself? Musicians may not always bring their own monitors and if there is ever a plan to have some measure of performance on the stage, you'll need speakers for them in addition to the main PA.

 

Briefly mentioned elsewhere but do put some consideration into how the cables get from from the mixing desk to the amps and speakers, particularly if the desk is not by the stage and mechanical aids to transport everything from it's store to the position around the stage.

 

Lastly, I'm in agreement this is something that should go via professional for whom their day job is supplying kit for a budget. By all means, bounce ideas or ask questions of the forum. But deal with the people who are paid to do this, and who can be held accountable if something goes amiss ...

 

Good luck!

 

understood I will get in contact with some local companies, I will have to talk to the music dept on about speakers for the stage I think I could always use the amps they have already I don't know what make but they might do the job as they have a inbuilt amp into them.

 

thanks for the advice

[kerry davies]

Thank you James. The box structure reinforces what the guys have said about getting professional input. That stage will be a sonic nightmare for backline and monitor sound and might be beyond the scope of amateurs. I would guess I would have problems getting a good mix cleanly and certainly not coherently projected for 100 metres. Onstage volume levels may need to be severely restricted.

 

Perhaps you could just do a test with drums, guitar and keyboard amps in there to see how it reacts? I would be very reluctant indeed to buy anything at all before several test gigs.

[Jupton24]

Thank you James. The box structure reinforces what the guys have said about getting professional input. That stage will be a sonic nightmare for backline and monitor sound and might be beyond the scope of amateurs. I would guess I would have problems getting a good mix cleanly and certainly not coherently projected for 100 metres. Onstage volume levels may need to be severely restricted.

 

Perhaps you could just do a test with drums, guitar and keyboard amps in there to see how it reacts? I would be very reluctant indeed to buy anything at all before several test gigs.

 

No Problems I was in the same mind field at first when they said it was going to be a outside venue with no back but they have changed their minds and went with almost a "shed". Defiantly I will make sure that we test before buy.

[TomHoward]

When you have a concert on the stage, with the mixing desk you already have, and the speakers you’re going to buy, whose job will it be to set the equipment up, take it down, set up the microphones and mix the levels for the band? Will someone at the school do it or will you be hiring an engineer in for the concerts?

[themadhippy]

forget the speakers for a minute,first off buy some material to cover all that wood,otherwise the reflections are gonna be a nightmare

[TonyMitchell]

What are the power arrangements for the stage, James?

[Yorkie]

The forums own MarkPAMan works for SFL who may also be able to assist.

Are you thinking of Mark Payne, username 'Mark Payne'? I believe he stepped back from the running of the company last year. SFL are capable, knowledgeable and Reading based

[Jivemaster]

How close are the near neighbours to the proposed stage? Maintaining 100dB at 100m means a large noise footprint. Has anyone considered noise and licensing? IMO this would be primary requirement. It's also probably a very valid reason to use a contractor on the first few events to determine what the real noise nuisance to neighbours will be before buying large amounts of kit.

[paulears]

For 10k, your school or college will almost certainly have a proper process for this kind of project. Usually considered a capital item bid, and if it's approved then there will be probably three firms asked to quote. So the first step is to identify suitable and reliable suppliers WHO HAVE DONE IT BEFORE. You also need a proper specification, and after somebody recommended problematic by modern standards Bose 802s, which have been the Marmite of the audio world for a huge period of time (I'm actually a pro 802 sound person), be aware that anyone recommending a speaker only available second hand, is potty, and out of their depth in modern audio. Is the 10k for just the speakers, speakers and amps, speakers, amps and processing, speakers amps, processing and mixer, or even that lot with some monitors thrown in? Or do you look at the Bishopsound Big systems that for this kind of use could be spot on in terms of value for money - lots of big boxes, not bad performance for the type and cheap!

 

There is also a risk to the teachers, not you. If they specify kit that turns out to be over or under specified, then the powers that be will consider them to have wasted what are normally public funds, and unavailable to other staff. If you get 10k and science or sports don't, and they see your 10K sitting in a store for 90% of the time, they will kick off, and your department have a tarnished reputation and this takes years to recover. Seen it so many times. There is always a barb in the "student technician" title. YOU could become the person who wasted 10K, the teacher who signed it off blaming you. This also happens. One Blue Room member I'm aware of specified a huge clever purchase that never worked. Their teacher had no clue at all - quite normal, and took their advice, and it went t*ts up badly. The big firm who supplied exactly what was asked for got flack because the system never worked, because assumptions were made that meant some of the kit just could not talk to each other. It got quite nasty. He still occasionally gets the comment when people meet him - "OH you were that Blue Room bloke' He is now 33!

 

Ideally, you actually need a consultant who does NOT sell equipment. Real consultants don't - so they're unbiased. If you ask a firm to quote for a broad spec, you will get expensive kit that may be OTT, or disco kit that will sound awful, or the whole range between. You seem to want value for money, but will not be the person who knows what the kit is expected to do, because nobody there can write the spec it sounds. You need to find an outside person, unbiased and experienced. Maybe one of our members can advise in your area if they visit and have a chat with everyone.

[Simon Lewis]

Completely agree with Paul's advice. Spending such sums for a school might look like good fun, but it's a potential minefield.

 

Whilst not independent consultants, SFL have been mentioned in this thread. The excellently named Matt Sales is a good guy to contact and they are based quite close to you in Reading.

 

Here's a link to their query page.