Follow spots.. Automation vs Manual

[lxkev]

So time to replace my venues follow spots... 

1000 seat venue receiving touring shows (musicals, plays, gigs and comedy) and community... 

Follow spot position means I need to take out seats, people sitting next to the spotters.. 

Automation, (follow me with control surfaces for example) I already have movers and I can shove follow spots operator control surface anywhere. 

Would a touring show be happy with a automated solution???? 

Thoughts. 

[GridGirl]

I used to work for a large and well known opera company, outside of the UK.  We got in automation technology for followspots in about 2017-2018 (can’t remember exactly when).  First show they got used on, there was a panic booking of spot ops halfway through the production period when the system just did not work well enough.  Since then a different system (BlackTrax, I think) has been introduced and is markedly better - but there are still spot ops on each production, it hasn’t replaced them completely.

[Dave m]

They aren’t cheap. At least they weren’t when first introduced.

I guess that you gain a seat or two ticket wise every performance.

[ImagineerTom]

Quote

Would a touring show be happy with a automated solution????

My instinct says no. The model at the moment is based around using venue operators who can be taught the queues quickly in a tech and if necessary called completely live by a competent SM. If you switch to an automated system then visiting companies would have to schedule specific tech time for the programming of your system and would have to run at least a couple of shows to find and correct any programming errors. 

[lxkev]

Couple of system I'm looking at are remotely operated by a person. So not auto tracking system.. 

Follow spot operator uses a joystick and screen to follow.. 

But I am worried it wouldn't be quick enough on the fly.. Yet to have a demo of the systems

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by lxkev

[alistermorton]

That's a whole different skill to learn. If your venue is supplying the operators, and they are (and can demonstrate they are) highly competent, enough to rival a "hands on" spot op you might get acceptance, but I'd still expect scepticism.

[niclights]

Have you considered the Robe RoboSpot system?  These are designed to operate and feel like a normal followspot and are very impressive.  Personally I would be happy to use this in place of a traditional spot.  Can be used with various Robe fixtures, either with integrated camera or by adding one:  https://www.robe.cz/robospot

[gareth]

Based on one show I've worked on which used remote-operation of moving heads as a follow-spot, quite frankly it looked utter dogsh*t. I don't know whether that was the kit not being right for the job, or operator issues, or a combination - but it was awful.

Edited September 9, 2022 by gareth

[sunray]

I have only knowingly encountered remote followspots once, as a member of the audience at a Christmas -- oh yes it was -- panto. They were all over the place, probably the worst was Tinkerbell flying from the back of the audience to stage left, the spots remained stubbonly pointing at the 2 guys heaving on ropes and for probably 15 seconds we had absolutely no idea what they were doing as poor old Tink remained in the total dark until she happened to cross the path of one of the spots. I don't know if it was remote controlled or auto track but I assume the latter.

I'm really not intending to quote it as a reason to not use.

Quite frankly the whole show was not much better so I assume the crew, and for that matter the cast too, were not up to the job.

[dmxlights]

It is doable but it would need some practices. I have done it here in Ireland for a local show with a mover and using 2 faders of my lighting desk. It did take me a while to master it but I could do it now if needed. I have not tried it with a joystick or a mouse.

I do know my Chamsys MQ60 has an option to use a mouse to move movers but I have not do it as of yet but I may try it some time to see if I could get the hang of it.

[gareth]

3 hours ago, dmxlights said:

It is doable but it would need some practices. I have done it here in Ireland for a local show with a mover and using 2 faders of my lighting desk. It did take me a while to master it but I could do it now if needed. I have not tried it with a joystick or a mouse.

I do know my Chamsys MQ60 has an option to use a mouse to move movers but I have not do it as of yet but I may try it some time to see if I could get the hang of it.

With respect, this is not what's under discussion here - we're talking about purpose-built automated follow-spot systems, rather than using a moving light and fudging it from a lighting desk 😉

[paulears]

For one nighters, follow spots seem to be the one thing they are dumping, due to costs. The riders seem to say no follow spots, regularly. Even though ours are no charge items, they don’t get used because the shows don’t use them everywhere else. The few that are left mean that there’s little point investing in new follow spots, let alone clever ones. Last two years we have hired in, and for over half the period they remain unused. It also means new ops remain new, so when they’re put to the test, they fail embarrassingly. Even worse, so many shows seem to have been produced by musical theatre people who don’t like hard edges, and want them as soft as hell. I don’t think a remote operator with a camera, as long as it’s good enough to cheat the levels accurately, is a problem. However, like the American Air Force discovered in their multi million dollar refuelling aircraft, a poor video screen and something small and distant to aim at accurately doesn’t work well together. 

[lxkev]

22 hours ago, niclights said:

Have you considered the Robe RoboSpot system?  These are designed to operate and feel like a normal followspot and are very impressive.  Personally I would be happy to use this in place of a traditional spot.  Can be used with various Robe fixtures, either with integrated camera or by adding one:  https://www.robe.cz/robospot

have been looking at this

[indyld]

The reasons you would choose a remote system with operator over a standard one are access and flexibility of light sources and positioning. This includes being able to have backlight spots etc. where it isn't practicable at the moment. 

It's then a cost/benefit calculation. 

If the question at hand isn't one of automated tracking etc. (which usually tours with the show anyway) then the flexibility/fallibility of a person is maintained in either system. 

As an incoming tour, as long as the spots are where they are required and work then I don't much care how it happens.

Edited September 10, 2022 by indyld

[lxkev]

Thanks for all your responses.

To throw something else in the mix. This is a venue in New Zealand, The impacts of covid in NZ has resulted in  a lot of techs leaving the industry, many of us moved into film. So now there is a huge skill shortage here.

Conversation with another regional venue say he been struggling to get new techs, and his thoughts are showing a 16 year old a fancy computer system vs a point and shoot  is that he more likely to inspire the next generation to pick it up. 

So.. 

Traditional -  

Pros 

• They do the job 
• Simple to maintain 
• Touring ops can use them

Cons for us 

• We loose venue seats 
• Possible noise from fans and magazines 
• Show are using them less

Automated - Manual System 

 

Pros 

• Using moving lights - so when not needed for follow spots can utilised
• No removing of seats 
• Can be used for back light as well
• inspire the next generation?

Cons for us 

• More things to go wrong 
• Touring spot operators may not be happy with the system

Things to consider 

if we went automated - are they quick enough on the fly? Can a touring op use the system easily?

Is there any venues who own a followme or robe system?