Managing premature collapse of wiring systems

[Simon Lewis]

If there is a fire I seriously think that cables falling off a truss are the least thing to be worried about. It's much more likely that a cable or snake draped over a fire exit on a couple of nails is going to be an issue

 

round here it's lucky if they've used nails.... two bits of re-used gaffer tape is more likely - and more deadly...

[themadhippy]

a legal requirement

the wiring regs aint a legal requirment

[Simon Lewis]

a legal requirement

the wiring regs aint a legal requirment

 

They certainly aren't... but as mentioned above, their requirements have a habit of becoming things which are stipulated by insurers, councils, venues etc., often in an inflexible, non risk based approach manner!

[TomHoward]

I can’t say I’ve had many safety bonds dropping out the sky.

 

I think this will serve as a reminder not to coil 50m of spare 16A and tape it at height over a fire exit, and probably think about putting a metal safety bond over cable loops where trusses have been taken out & slack coiled up at height on an entrance / exit side of the building but I don’t think we’re going to start using chains in place of every piece of tape along a bar.

[OllieT]

The problem I see with this is that if you start heating a rig up to the point where cable droop/lx tape failing is a problem, then the cables are quickly going to be the least of your concerns. We would then need to look at how the rest of our kit holds up to being heated up like that- I can't imagine hemp bars would take it well! Neither would slings or strops, and you would have to look at how large, plastic cased items (projectors, moving heads ect) would respond, along with pretty much every other component of a rig.

 

It does make a lot of sense to have cables well supported over fire exits- the easiest way to achieve that is for venues to install cable tray over each exit, which would have the added bonus of making our lives much easier when running cable. Because its easier than the alternative it also means it will get used, rather than some rule (everyone must use stainless steel cable ties ect ect) that isn't enforced and is therefore widely ignored.

 

I think what is actually needed is better fire fighting plans for a theatre/stage environment. I certainly wouldn't want to have to go into a theatre that was on fire, because there comes a point when things are going to start falling out of the sky. At first it may be the cables, but eventually bars, drapes, lights, set ect are going to start falling, and as the person on the ground in a smoke filled room its probably impossible to tell when that exact moment will be. The ideal is to avoid putting anyone in that situation of having to go into that environment.

[sandall]

You're right, but the problem with many of the "regulations" that affect us is that although originally well-intentioned they are often applied in situations that were never considered when they were devised. It's not a long stretch of imagination to see hemp in its various manifestations being totally banned in theatres. A bit like the fishing industry, where relatively safe hemp was replaced by highly unsafe (for many reasons) polypropylene. In practise, unless lives are in danger there would be little reason for firefighters to venture onto a burning stage.

[Jivemaster]

What should happen is that venues should provide cable trays to run all possible cables secured to the structure of the building, what will happen is that some venues will issue an addendum to their technical drawings making it the hirer's responsibility to comply.

 

A very good place to start for most people and places would be to start securing cables in public areas and especially in public escape routes in a way that stops things falling into the public in case of fire. Even then it's a sign of good intent, not absolute compliance.

[paulears]

I can think of at least three venues where nobody would understand any of this, and have no plans of any sort worth reading on how to deal with emergencies. One had a plan where the number one thing to happen when the fire alarm went off was for the staff to immediately leave and line up in the designated safe place - the public were left to their own safety protection. When it was pointed out this was, er, not correct, they were genuinely surprised. Nobody it seemed had ever pointed this out, so historically had never happened. My summer venue, as another example, discovered in a real fire situation that the dry riser - well, dry horizontal run down the pier had been shut off by the fire brigade years before, and the numerous hose reels were dry, and not functional. Following a change of fire brigade policy, after three years, new different style valves were fitted (at huge cost) and the hose reels reconnected. Some theatres have excellent and well thought out systems in place (like where I am at the moment) with proper alarm testing and systems - but we should remember that this is NOT universal. Jivemaster mentions cable trays - but from bitter experience of all sorts of theatres our band has visited all over the UK - nails above the doors outweigh proper systems by miles. Think about the old multis - often two or three chunky cables taped together. Not uncommon to be allowed to run them down the edge of an aisle with a bit of carpet gaffered down where they cross the walkways. Look up in most venues and there's loads of cable taped to anything solid, often been that way for years.

 

Until local authorities and the emergency services have money to spend on visits, loads of places will be wildly out of touch with modern ways of working. I get the feeling the good venues believe everyone does this, and my experience is that they don't.

 

We often talk about the changes made due to the temporary events rules. My band are still doing events outside where electric are nowhere near compliance standards, because the small festival on playing fields with maybe a couple of thousand visitors have never heard of them, and just do the same as previous years. I remember thinking that the bodged up stages, precarious structures and dubious hanging systems would be on their way out, but nothing has changed in my world. The big events might well have upped their game from perhaps an already good standard. The small ones are still running from any random power supply they can find with no sign of a certificate. Last year, water killed the power on two of our shows, but tipping the water out of a 13a 4 way and giving it a shake worked for the 'electrical' people. The bucket over the top seemed to stop it filling up again.

 

With many venues having few, if any permanent staff, these kinds of situations always fall into somebody else's territory. The freelance crews who get booked are there for their show duties, NOT to ensure policies are being met. This is the real issue I think with real genuine safety to ensure.

 

I saw a notice pinned up at my summer venue, presumably in response to some official communication instructing people to talk to the technical manager about X, Y and Z, and this person would sort it. I asked in the office who this person was, and discovered it was me! I pointed out it certainly wasn't - nothing has changed. My response to all these things is "remember Hillsborough". How many freelancers consider themselves to be the one responsible if things go wrong? Quite a scary question really. OK for employees, probably part of the job, but does anyone self-employed have a contract that excludes them from responsibility like this? "Who put that cable there?" said by the Judge could have far reaching consequences.

[kerry davies]

Interesting stuff. As for Charlotte and her BS 7671 compliance issues then I don't actually know of any permanent installs that don't use trunking, cable trays or cables firmly nailed to walls and that is what 7671 was intended to cover. Temporary installations standards (NOT regulations) get covered by BS 7909 and that has differing requirements. Mr Eade takes a pragmatic view of all this and when running a cable to a lantern that wasn't there yesterday and will be in Barcelona tomorrow sees it as counter-productive to use standards more appropriate to household or factory permanence.

 

On the more general points made by Paul and others then we enter my pet area of events production; responsibility. When I first started working with community festivals I too was appalled and amazed that the organisers were blithely unaware of their legal and moral responsibilities. One of the first things I did, with those that would listen, is deliver a brief festival organiser talk pointing out the possible dire consequences to them of them just assuming that Paul and his ilk would carry the can. It was why I first wrote the abbreviated guide, that and the fact that I gave a festival committee chair the Purple Guide and he threw it in the bin as being an SEP (somebody else's problem).

 

It seems to me pointless to complain about duff electrics or dodgy staging when we should bite the bullet and say; "I am not using that". Then we can use that as a reason to educate the ignorant. They genuinely don't have a scooby and we should be tolerant, after all some of our "colleagues" in events don't have a clue either. I think we have both a moral and a legal duty to point out to those less educated or trained than us where they are going wrong. We also have a duty to say; "Fix it or I am off." Once we know better we bear at least some responsibility for making it better. When the judge asks why you didn't do anything about that cable being there when you knew it was FUBAR is when it really gets awkward.

[paulears]

Yep - I guess we all have a personal line to not cross, but on the few occasions I've had to get that strict, two days later, somebody else had been and done it!

[TomHoward]

On the original point, could you just turn an empty hook clamp sideways on the scaff bar to make a sort of hook - would that be big enough for a bar full of cable? It might be easier to add cables to than undoing a safety for every additional cable.

 

I think we’ll change our working that when winding up excess cable from trusses we'll either add a safety chain or hook the loop over the end of the bar once it’s taped rather than just taping to the bottom of the bar, and any major excess cable on bars the same - even if it’s just passing over the hook clamp of the lantern or adding a hook clamp to hang it on rather than taping.

 

On the divergent point, on the PLASA NAPIT stand with the “identify 10 faults with the distro” I joked that it had just come off site - it was only marginally worse than many I have been offered supply from.

[sunray]

On the divergent point, on the PLASA NAPIT stand with the "identify 10 faults with the distro" I joked that it had just come off site - it was only marginally worse than many I have been offered supply from.

It wasn't at PLASMA but a small stage set-up with some faults for the same purpose at an outdoor exhibition, possibly Brighton.There were supposedly 24 faults across the various trades, a colleague and I 'surveyed' and just by standing at the front of it doing a visual we identified more than 24. The organisers were horrified as it had been put together by the crew that did the main stage area.

 

 

On the original point, could you just turn an empty hook clamp sideways on the scaff bar to make a sort of hook - would that be big enough for a bar full of cable? It might be easier to add cables to than undoing a safety for every additional cable.

Indeed and this is typical of many of the people I work with. I assumed it is common practice.

[bigclive]

The primary point of note in this thread is that it does make sense to support cables in the exit routes of event venues.

 

For venues with a lot of temporary installations it would make sense to have metal hooks along the walls above head height where cables could be easily hooked in and out, and also high enough above doors to prevent sagging into the door frame area.

 

Then remind people installing or removing cables not to drag cables over or against each other.

[kerry davies]

For venues with lots of temporary installations, Clive, isn't it about time we stopped using sticking plaster solutions and had ducting? Or wireless or Cat or anything but draping cables over emergency exits as we have done for decades? A better nail in a doorframe isn't the solution. If we are thinking of that then the temporary bodge has become the norm and that can't be right.

[Simon Lewis]

The primary point of note in this thread is that it does make sense to support cables in the exit routes of event venues.

 

Hope it's not a pedantic point, but the changed regulation in the 18th edition specifically widens the remit from 'escape routes' to 'throughout the venue'. Whilst a sensible risk based approach does need to be taken, it isn't just fire exits and routes that we need to consider (although as discussed, those are often the very places which see the most egregious practices).

 

"Regulation 521.10.202 requires cables to be adequately supported against their premature collapse in the event of a fire. This applies throughout the installation and not just in escape routes

 

... isn't it about time we stopped using sticking plaster solutions and had ducting?

 

"Ducting" in the form of recessed gutters or cable ways in floors with hinged (preferably lockable) lids are great.

"Ducting " in the form of enclosed spaces requiring a draw string to pull stuff through are a nightmare...!!

Edited January 6, 2020 by Simon Lewis