Lighting PAT

[sunray]

I'm sure a sensible answer exists within the forums but I struggle to either know what terms to search for or find the answer.

 

The local Church is asking about PAT status of the stage lighting for an upcoming event I'm teching in the adjacent hall.

It gets complicated due to lack of knowledge of actual ownership but discussions are afoot and Church seems to want 3 monthly PAT, as the lights stay rigged and basically don't move from one year to the next I feel an annual PAT is adequate or even excessive... AFAIA there was no PAT prior to my involvement, I tested all in 2018 & extras I aquired in 2019 but nothing tested since. The schools I have assisted with seem to go for 2 or 5 years.

What Are peoples ideas on this please?

Ironically the Minim 23's in the Church itself don't get tested as they are hard wired to a FCU and their electrician will not go further than the switch.

[themadhippy]

all comes down to your risk assessment based on stuff like how often its moved and the location the stuffs being used

[ANDYLASER]

For installed lighting, I used to do every year. But we would also drop the lights each year and clean them as nessescary as well as performing inspection and testing.

If the lighting is being dropped and repositioned regularly, then a more frequent inspection would be appropriate.

[Dave m]

PAT was developed for portable equipment and lights that get rigged and derigged are obviously in that category.

A decent tech would give gear a visual check each time they took it from the store, a hire co hopefully on each return.

If the stuff stays rigged, once a year along with a wash and grease should be fine IMHO

[sunray]

THanks all I'll try to get them to accept annual. These don't get much use, even when the AmDram was active it was usually only once per year.

[Tomo]

The HSE have published some guidance on the matter - https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-testing.htm

The main risk PAT is there to protect you from is wear and tear on things like cables and plugs/sockets, and undetected/unreported physical damage - "I dropped it but it looked ok"

If the fixtures stay rigged, indoors and "out of reach" then the HSE guidance implies a formal visual every 2-4 years (not hand-held, rarely moved) and electrical test up to five years apart, as there's a relatively low risk that something will get broken or wear out.

That said, they want cleaning fairly regularly anyway, and a visual inspection should be part of cleaning!

[Simon Lewis]

The 5th edition of the IET's Code of Practice for In Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment was written by James Eade, and he has brought much needed clarity of thinking to the whole "PAT" circus.

First major change is that since the electrical installation should be subject to periodic inspection (EICR etc.) anything that is not part of the electrical installation (including wired in equipment) should be subject to testing. He has scrapped use of the terms "portable" and "appliance". 
The second is the affirmation of a risk based approach to testing frequency. This was actually always there but people seized on the table of suggested test frequencies, made them akin to canonical law and pronounced that stuff had to be tested every 12 months etc.

In this case, the risk presented by devices that aren't run on a frequent basis and aren't moved or disturbed doesn't seem to warrant such frequent inspection as 3 months. Conversely, the wired in Minims ought to at least be inspected to get them on the list so that any potential long term thermal / ageing damage can be spotted.

The Code of Practice is somewhat overpriced, but it's actually a very sensible and useful read....

https://shop.theiet.org/code-of-practice-for-in-service-inspection-and-testing-of-electrical-equipment-5th-edition 

[sunray]

11 hours ago, Tomo said:

The HSE have published some guidance on the matter - https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-testing.htm

The main risk PAT is there to protect you from is wear and tear on things like cables and plugs/sockets, and undetected/unreported physical damage - "I dropped it but it looked ok"

If the fixtures stay rigged, indoors and "out of reach" then the HSE guidance implies a formal visual every 2-4 years (not hand-held, rarely moved) and electrical test up to five years apart, as there's a relatively low risk that something will get broken or wear out.

That said, they want cleaning fairly regularly anyway, and a visual inspection should be part of cleaning!

As I mentioned schools seem to have settled on 2 or 5 years which fits in with your comment. The document you link to will, I hope, give gounding for solution.

 

The fitings in the OP belonging to the hall/Church (although the Church don't seem to recognise that as they are a legacy of the defunct AmDram) simply hang there and pretty much unused so expecting 3 monthly testing is crazy. But if truth be known I think they basically don't want them to be there.

[the kid]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:42 AM, sunray said:

As I mentioned schools seem to have settled on 2 or 5 years which fits in with your comment. The document you link to will, I hope, give gounding for solution.

 

The fitings in the OP belonging to the hall/Church (although the Church don't seem to recognise that as they are a legacy of the defunct AmDram) simply hang there and pretty much unused so expecting 3 monthly testing is crazy. But if truth be known I think they basically don't want them to be there.

Not just excessive but how much time would be involved ? and people ? ladders ? or tower ? thats 2 or 3 people to bring them down + someone to open up ? heating ?   someone to test (I assume you in this case ? ) 


I was going to post what Tomo said, It's a battle maybe, but its not crazy. We had at college computers that didnt move, yet every year it was being insisted we tested them. 

[sunray]

1 hour ago, the kid said:

Not just excessive but how much time would be involved ? and people ? ladders ? or tower ? thats 2 or 3 people to bring them down + someone to open up ? heating ?   someone to test (I assume you in this case ? ) 


I was going to post what Tomo said, It's a battle maybe, but its not crazy. We had at college computers that didnt move, yet every year it was being insisted we tested them. 

As it happens I spent 4 hours yesterday prepping for Sundays lunch; while refocussing (using the 6ft plastic Christmas Tree in lieu of people), replugging DMX and adding fairy lights I did a quick external visual inspection (except 3 which required getting the bigger ladder into an awkward location) and afterwards from the dimmers did a quick earth continuity via hookclamps etc to building earth and insulation tests.

However Last time it was done properly; dropping, stripping, inspecting, cleaning, testing, rerigging and refocussing for a show took best part of 2 days for 2 of us, actually a day each in 2018 & 2019.

As to it being me, basically things are I'm the only one using it for anything but others don't want the hard earned facility to vanish. The Church however would prefer to see the kit gone and aren't even interested in repurposing the profiles in place of the minims in the Church.

[Stuart91]

3 hours ago, the kid said:

 We had at college computers that didnt move, yet every year it was being insisted we tested them. 

In the UK, the HSE are on the record as saying they don't conduct testing on their own office equipment:

Quote

HSE's approach to maintaining portable appliances in its own offices

In 2011, the HSE reviewed its approach to portable appliance maintenance in its own offices. Thinking about the type of equipment in use, and how it was used, the HSE looked back at the results from its annual testing of portable appliances across its estate over the last five years. Using the results of the previous tests, the HSE decided that further portable appliance tests are not needed within the foreseeable future or at all for certain types of portable equipment. Also, they decided to continue to monitor any faults reported as a result of user checks and visual inspections and review its maintenance system if evidence suggests that it needs revising. Electrical equipment will continue to be maintained by a series of user checks and visual inspections by staff that have had some training. 

Key Points:

• Annual portable appliance testing is not always necessary in low risk environments
• You do not need to be an electrician to carry out visual inspections
• Low cost user checks and visual inspections are a good method of Maintaining portable electric equipment

From here

 

 

54 minutes ago, sunray said:

while refocussing (using the 6ft plastic Christmas Tree in lieu of people),

To be fair, the tree will probably have a better emotional range than some of the turns I've worked with...

[James]

1 hour ago, Stuart91 said:

ITo be fair, the tree will probably have a better emotional range than some of the turns I've worked with...

And more patience. 

[sleah]

7 hours ago, Stuart91 said:

To be fair, the tree will probably have a better emotional range than some of the turns I've worked with...

5 hours ago, James said:

And more patience. 

But will the darn thing stay in the light....😶

[sunray]

15 hours ago, sleah said:

But will the darn thing stay in the light....😶

Funny you should say that...

 

At least it won't grow taller, unlike one of tomorrows performers. Back in June he was not as tall as the stage (4 steps for access so I guess 3ft) and very tubby, we had to set the mic boom pointing down for him in rehearsal and for the performance I took a boom stand I usually use for kick drum and took one in last week as his name is on the list.

So I asked why he wasn't there.

"That's him on mic3."

I looked on the june cue sheet for June showing 'What's going on (Marvin Gaye). Jake... short stand' I'd even added an extra profile to give a small spot for him

"Yeah that's him on mic3 with Ellie."

I thought he showed signs of dwarfism but in 6months and turning 10year old he'd grown more than a foot, comparing with the mic stand maybe closer to 18"