Night club fire, appears to be caused by customers being given fireworks

[Paul TC]

Some years ago, (mid 1990's), attending a college course run at night and only two other courses in building, found that all the escape routes bar how we entered the building to 3rd floor were locked, probably to make a "quick finish" for the care-taking staff at 9.00 PM when we finished.

A Duty Fire Officer attended that same night in response to someone's phone call, not sure with the changes in Fire Safety law since then, that it would elicit same response today.

[pmiller056]

@Stuart91 If the hotel is part of a chain or an independent, look on Companies House for the headquarters address. Phone them and ask to speak to the company director responsible for customer health and safety. In the past, I've found this to be an quick and very effective way of getting similar site problems sorted.

[sunray]

2 hours ago, Stuart91 said:

I was in a relatively upscale hotel a couple of weeks before Christmas, running sound for a function band. The dance floor and stage area was at a dead end of the building, with two fire exits leading off. One remained locked for the duration of the event (the reason given, when I discovered it, was "people get in through it"). The other exit was almost entirely blocked by wheelie bins.

A decent way back, like 2000 ish, I did sound and lights for a companies annual prizegiving. the day before the event we parked vehicles by 2 of the fire exits with the expectation of getting them opened for the load-in. they were pushbar doors with key operated locks in the pushbar system. Nobody in the building was able to find a key to unlock them but a promise it would be unlocked the next day.

We removed the pushbar system for the load-in and replaced it but the following day right up to an hour before event time they were still locked. Phone calls to head office had a lock smith there within minutes, by which time we had the mechanism off again to make the job easy, following day for the rip out the new keys were nowhere to be found...

[sleah]

15 hours ago, sunray said:

 key operated locks in the pushbar system.

Kinda defeats the object of crash bars if they can be locked. Common for a key lock on an outside handle, but inside rendering the door fully locked??? I'm surprised that anyone manufactures a system with lockable crash bars!

[sunray]

4 hours ago, sleah said:

Kinda defeats the object of crash bars if they can be locked. Common for a key lock on an outside handle, but inside rendering the door fully locked??? I'm surprised that anyone manufactures a system with lockable crash bars!

That was our thought too but they (head office) declared it to be for their security.

[Junior8]

17 hours ago, sunray said:

That was our thought too but they (head office) declared it to be for their security.

To be fair the guidance has always acknowledged the need of some venues to balance access with security but it has always seemed to me that anything which cannot be easily checked visually is a risk. Mind you just yesterday I passed a venue where someone had chosen to store a stack of traffic cones and a wheelie bin in what is clearly an escape route - it always needs the sort of constant monitoring too often it simply doesn't get.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Junior8

[Dave m]

a venue that I worked in had "hot shoe" style brackets on external fire doors. The door had to be unlocked, then the right angled brackets that had held the padlocks were removed by sliding then out. The bracket/padlock combo then had it's own hook in the stage door office. You could spot at a glance any door not secured.

Fire doors in other music venues have had Hall effect sensors connected to a bloody great floodlight. Pop open a fire escape and you were lit up like a WW2 POW camp escapee.

[Stuart91]

One of the problems affecting the venue I mentioned earlier is that the council issued a decree banning wheelie bins from sitting in the street, apart from immediately before collection. So now the bins are all cluttering the fire exit route. I had to pull them out into the street to clear enough space to load my kit in. 

[Tomo]

On 1/4/2022 at 12:05 PM, sleah said:

Kinda defeats the object of crash bars if they can be locked. Common for a key lock on an outside handle, but inside rendering the door fully locked??? I'm surprised that anyone manufactures a system with lockable crash bars!

I used to see breakable rods in these.

Lockable from either side, shoving the interior pushbar hard enough would shatter a rod in the locking mechanism and open the door.

Seems like a good idea on the face of it, but the trouble with this system is that you need a new breakable rod to secure the door afterwards, and I don't fancy the chances of being able to find one the same day - or even the same week.

Saw a lot of sites with a broken lock and a padlock and chain instead...

[themadhippy]

Quote

but the trouble with this system is that you need a new breakable rod to secure the door afterwards, and I don't fancy the chances of being able to find one the same day

You just keep a box of spares alongside your spare break glasses for the fire alarm.

[sunray]

21 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I used to see breakable rods in these.

Lockable from either side, shoving the interior pushbar hard enough would shatter a rod in the locking mechanism and open the door.

Seems like a good idea on the face of it, but the trouble with this system is that you need a new breakable rod to secure the door afterwards, and I don't fancy the chances of being able to find one the same day - or even the same week.

Saw a lot of sites with a broken lock and a padlock and chain instead...

 

13 minutes ago, themadhippy said:

You just keep a box of spares alongside your spare break glasses for the fire alarm.

A large stash of spares  if used in venues serving alcohol to youngsters as every one tends to get smashed every evening...

How do I know?

[Ynot]

Seems it wasn't the first time...

From a 2018 facespace post...

What a surprise.....

 

[kerry davies]

Nightclub fire fatalities are becoming more frequent and since 2000 either stage or punter pyrotechnics have caused over 60% of them. Due to the uncertainty around cause that may be as high as 80% involving pyro FX of some kind.  It used to be smoking related was a major cause.

As for glass firebolts, the spares come in boxes of 20 and because you can open the lock without breaking the glass, stewarded evacs don't always break them. Students seem far less likely to smash a firebolt than an alarm glass, not sure why.

[sunray]

1 hour ago, kerry davies said:

As for glass firebolts, the spares come in boxes of 20 and because you can open the lock without breaking the glass, stewarded evacs don't always break them. Students seem far less likely to smash a firebolt than an alarm glass, not sure why.

My experiences (limited to only 2 venues) is the opposite way round, one was 7 exits directly off the main areas, 4 at dance floor - 3 on balcony, and every session all 7 would be used. They tried to steward the exit time and herd customers to the main doors but too many fights broke out.

The other was a university town... they used to monitor how many were let in by CCTV for the totals count, it was easier than the agro of trying to stop it.

[TomHoward]

Sorry to resurrect an old topic for a wayward point but back when I used to tech a well known northern nightclub the fire exits were usually a bit suspect, there was often a high entry fee and what used to happen was that some punter would crash open a fire door to let all his mates who were waiting on the steps outside to rush in before anyone could get to it. They'd get in without being vetted / searched as well so it was a security nightmare, which probably could be avoided be some other means but it may explain why sometimes crash bars may have locks from the inside or there may be some resistance to fire exits being able to be repeatedly easily opened & closed at a moment's notice, obviously this isn't ideal but at least there sometimes could be some reasoning behind something rather than just plain ignorance