Rigging a hangman - student film

[michigraf]

Hi all,

 

I'm producing a short film for London Film School which is set in a Mexican factory, where a men hanged himself. We're building the factory as set on one of the London Film School stages, which has a lighting grid (max load 200kg). The hangman is going to be a dummy for most of the shots but we're also looking into the option of having a real person hanging. This would mainly be for closer shot from the chest downwards. We don't need to see the head or neck, also we're most likely not going to have a full body shot.

I'm looking now for somebody how would be interested to advise on how we could do this, where to get the and maybe also to be the supervisor on set. Obviously we want to make this safe and the School as production company will also not allow us to do anything which isn't properly risk assessed.

 

Many thanks for any advice.

 

Michael

[Dave m]

Stating the obviousI am no a rigger and wouldn't do it myself

 

Don't hang a real person.

I would build a light dummy and ensure that for safety's sake, the rope couldn't support a real human, just in case some enterprising should tries it. Sort of a built in safety feature. But I would also remove the rope between takes etc. That takes the risk of a similar situation to the Italian accident down the scale

I assume that the human needs to have his/her arms down ?Does the entire body from say, nipple to feet really need to be in the same shot?

Could the victim stand on a stool with bent knees to simulate the hanging?Then once you film below hip level, have him/her hold on to a bar for the dangling feet?

This can be really dangerous and you have to assume that you are surrounded by idiots so remove any risk that a rope could in any way support the weight of a real human

[kerry davies]

You are going to need to run this by your tutors and lecturers anyway so talk to them first. Whatever advice we might give could well be irrelevant and is certainly no substitute for on-the-spot expert advice. Flying human beings is an expert area in itself and hanging simulations even more so.

[ninjadingle]

Instant response - get advice from someone from Foys or AFX (other flying companies are available - these are the first 2 that sprung into mind). I'd want a human supported independently of any noose type affair, in a harness that doesn't require the actor to support themselves (ie holding onto a bar). Once they've told you what to do - do it. Don't skimp on this or try to do it on the cheap - you may get away with it but do you want to be responsible if it goes wrong?

[ontoprigger]

As pointed out, don't try this yourself talk to Flying by Foy, they will be able to assist, I am a rigger / flying director but as I am currently in Australia probably a little out of your budget.

 

this isn't a big job to undertake for someone who understands the risks but has all of the potential to go very wrong very quickly to anyone who does not know what they are doing.

 

You will also find that they will probably be able to give you the full body shot if you need it, I worked on a film about the life of hangman Alfred Pierpoint and we staged 101 hangings for the film, including a full body drop so I am sure they could help with something, but you will need to have a reasonable budget unless you can appeal to their charitable side (Try and talk to Nick). If you cant afford it look to stage it without the use of a suspended rope for the shots, as previously mentioned by standing on a box or hanging from a bar, but never put anyone's head in a noose unless its specially rigged by a professional as they will use a specific knot that will fall apart.

 

Foys 020 8236 0234

 

 

 

[Shez]

It's a film - there are a myriad of ways of faking it. You control exactly what the audience see, unlike on stage. The oft-quoted shower scene from Psycho is an old but good example - you never see a stabbing but audiences (at the time at least) were convinced that they did. Carefully framed shots and good editing are all you need.

[andy_s]

It's a film - there are a myriad of ways of faking it. You control exactly what the audience see, unlike on stage. The oft-quoted shower scene from Psycho is an old but good example - you never see a stabbing but audiences (at the time at least) were convinced that they did. Carefully framed shots and good editing are all you need.

and chocolate sauce

[ddproduction]

Doing this properly requires experienced professionals and a serious budget.

 

Fatal hanging incidents still happen (even recently), would you want to be the one in court if you tried it yourself / on the cheap?

 

There are lots of ways to achieve the same effect/response without showing a live person.

[ABlackmore]

If you can't do it with a dummy, and you don't have the budget to hire in professionals the answer is simple: change the shot. Plenty of ways to cheat this from a camera perspective without having to hang a real person.

[Jivemaster]

It's film, it is done in multiple takes, therefore hanging the same actor several times just increases the risk from stupid to suicidal. DON'T do it for real do it for film in separate shots that add up to what you want the audience to know from what they see.

[adamharman]

I read the original post as saying they're only considering a real person for shots from the chest down and don't need to see the head or neck.

In which case there is no need for any sort of noose on the real person and a suitable harness worn under costume could provide safe support.

 

Rigging is more problematic, and the 200kg max load on the grid.... A person has to be considered a dynamic load as you cannot guarantee they stay perfectly still, so you need to allow for much higher loads than their actual weight. I wouldn't be happy hanging from that.

[w/robe]

I read the original post as saying they're only considering a real person for shots from the chest down and don't need to see the head or neck.

In which case there is no need for any sort of noose on the real person and a suitable harness worn under costume could provide safe support.

You read it like that because that is what it says

The hangman is going to be a dummy for most of the shots but we're also looking into the option of having a real person hanging. This would mainly be for closer shot from the chest downwards. We don't need to see the head or neck, also we're most likely not going to have a full body shot.

Come on people I know we all want to be safe but calm down a bit.

 

If you only want to see him from mid-chest down then presumable he could have a supporting structure which sits under his armpits and with a bit of careful framing his feet only have to be a few inches of the ground.

[chelgrian]

without the use of a suspended rope for the shots, as previously mentioned by standing on a box or hanging from a bar, but never put anyone's head in a noose unless its specially rigged by a professional as they will use a specific knot that will fall apart.

 

Surely you cut the rope and then sew it with a single weak thread such that any force on it will cause it to separate.

 

For the OP. If you want to fly a person you will probably need to get professional help to do this as you need appropriately rated flying gear and harnesses which you know the provenance of, it's not the kind of thing you can easily hire on its own because of the issue of trusting the hiree to report damage to equipment.

 

The other problem is your lighting grid, you say 200Kg but what is that figure? Safe working load for the entire system? Point load? Do you know what safety factor was used when installing the grid? You may be better with a ground based frame which you can carefully keep out of shot however you need someone to design that and do the calculations on it.

 

Every time we've done it the gear has either been bought brand new specifically for the production or owned by the designers of the effect.

[Ynot]

Sorry, guys, but I'm firmly in the camp of DON'T.

Unless you have professionals involved, not just to show you what to do but to actually DO the rigging and execute (pun intended) the effect, then it's just too risky for a student venture.

To be honest your tutors SHOULD be advising you right from the off, and should really be telling you to look at ways of doing this using the magic of film - ie at NO point having the actor's neck anywhere near a noose.

 

Only recently there was the case of an accidental hanging of a performer in Italy...

 

 

[empyfree]

Do something arty behind a silhouette screen, with a dummy of course!