15amp socket shutters

[Yorkie]

One question - if a cable assembly is using approved (as in BS) connectors - should the test be extended to add in location and use? Surely the test is for the appliance itself. We cannot fail a 13A, shuttered extension cable simply because it may be used outside, and isn't waterproof - can we?

 

If it's in a place like a church, and I know they don't have RCD's on all socket circuits, I'd certainly be recommending RCD 13A plugs on longer extension cables likely to be used outside. The choice is that of the dutyholder.

 

I could pass an item for use in an office one day and it be moved to a kitchen the next day. The paperwork is unlikely to be checked before the item is moved to the kitchen, and the green sticker won't say 'Valid only in the office'

[ojc123]

I've passed our old unshuttered 15A sockets in the past. They were all up in the grid where they are only accessed by reasonably competent people. I've replaced them with shuttered over time with the last replacements being last year. A quick Google suggests you can get 10 permaplug shuttered sockets for about £35 so why not?

 

I've probably mentioned previously the time I came back from a break to find all the lanterns with 15A plugs chopped off. The PAT tester had decided that they didn't have a fuse and were "illegal." After some heated discussion our School Premises Manager made them come back and replace all the plugs they'd taken off. That's why we do our own testing now.

[ianknight]

A couple of years back I arrived to start rigging to find a theatrical supplier sat at a table carrying out PAT, and with a pile of 'failed' PAR cans on one side. Having seen these the last time I was down, having been failed the year before, I questioned the fail stickers with the guys on site, as I could see no physical defects at all on them. The answer was that there was no electrical faults, BUT the cans still had the old ceramic lamp bases and these were deemed to be unsafe because the kids might put their fingers in and get burned... Hence their 'fails'.

 

I have to say Tony that we fail many open backed PAR Can's with basic ceramic holders because of the risk of reaching in to the can to adjust the beam and touching live conductors - either by staff or students. A "PARSafe" costs relatively little to buy and generally any new PAR's we sell come with the device anyway - we have had some closed back cans arrive over the last couple of years but there's no issue with them.

 

We don't get 'picky' when we PAT test extension cables - we're concerned mostly with physical damage i.e. stuff that could go wrong tomorrow if the cables are abused and that the cable length/diameter is such that any protection devices can still work to spec (which is why our longest length 15a TRS cables in hire are 20m). We certainly don't worry about unsleeved pins (but having said that our 15a plugs in sale these days do have sleeved pins) or lack of shutters if the case of the socket looks intact and undamaged.

 

Too many people see the PAT test as being 'the' safeguard and bastion of electrical safety (especially in many schools) but in reality it's only considering a small part of the picture - it's almost the equivalent of a Car MOT in some respects i.e. it's only good for the day it's performed. In many cases it's not being used as intended as an insight or gauge of how the portable equipment is ageing or being abused but as a stamp of approval that no money needs to be spent this year.

[kerry davies]

Completely agree with Ian's last paragraph. The intention was to use regular testing and inspection regimes to enhance the day-to-day safe use of electrical equipment but it often became a box-ticking exercise. Recording results is purely to identify weaknesses and high risk areas which can then be inspected more thoroughly. Just filing records away without analysing them is pointless.

 

Of course some insalubrious people made money out of it and of course some people insisted on the tick rather than the inspection. However the basics are to inspect regularly and the frequency depends on the environment. HSE themselves have stated that they do not test their office equipment in full every year because of the low-risk environment.

[alistermorton]

Wish I could find somewhere to give a definitive answer as we had a load of extension cables failed without any further inspection than spotting the unsleeved pins on the 15A plugs and rejecting them immediately on that basis alone. These, of course, are only ever used in the rig, they're not domestic connectors.

 

Any ideas of some sort of definitive answer, folks, or is it just a matter of personal opinion of the particular tester on the day?

[Brian]

What does *your* risk assessment say?

[J Pearce]

<cynic mode>

And what does your insurance policy say?

</cynic mode>

[Brian]

<cynic mode>

And what does your insurance policy say?

</cynic mode>

It won't even mention it.

 

If you're lucky it'll say that the installation must be regularly tested etc etc and maybe, just maybe, it'll mention PAT testing.

[allanr]

Wish I could find somewhere to give a definitive answer as we had a load of extension cables failed without any further inspection than spotting the unsleeved pins on the 15A plugs and rejecting them immediately on that basis alone. These, of course, are only ever used in the rig, they're not domestic connectors.

 

Any ideas of some sort of definitive answer, folks, or is it just a matter of personal opinion of the particular tester on the day?

 

This is the closest I could find and it would seem reasonable to extrapolate to 15A plugs/connectors

.

Ref Code of Practice for In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment 4th Edition 2012, Appendix VII, table VII.1.15 (page 138 for the impatient)

.

"All standard 13A plugs now sold are required by law to conform to BS 1363 which requires pins to be sleeved. The legislation is not retrospective in that it does not apply to old plugs already in use, but non-sleeved plugs should not be re-used i.e. not refitted to new leads."

[ianknight]

This is the closest I could find and it would seem reasonable to extrapolate to 15A plugs/connectors

.

Ref Code of Practice for In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment 4th Edition 2012, Appendix VII, table VII.1.15 (page 138 for the impatient)

.

"All standard 13A plugs now sold are required by law to conform to BS 1363 which requires pins to be sleeved. The legislation is not retrospective in that it does not apply to old plugs already in use, but non-sleeved plugs should not be re-used i.e. not refitted to new leads."

 

This is what we tend to do with our Hire stock being honest, we keep some old plugs about in case an existing cable gets damaged - if the plug gets damaged badly then we can swap it for a decent used one. When we build new cables - it's new plugs and sockets just to be sure.

[Richard P-W]

I keep a couple of un-sleeved 13A plug to 15A socket jumpers for when I know I'll be drawing the full 13A. Some sleeved 13A plugs don't have much brass under that insulation and tend to get hot.

 

On the subject of 15A sleeved plugs, I have a South African travel adaptor (13A pins to 15A outlet) which I use for PAT. I soon discovered it fails any sleeved Permaplugs as the socket contacts go slightly past the metal of the pin and onto the sleeve...

[MrBoomal]

In relation to electrically sound items being used in an incorrect location. I today received the following from HSE.

 

Dear Malcolm

 

Thank you for your enquiry. I can provide the following advice which I hope you will find helpful.

 

Portable and transportable electrical equipment should only be used for its intended purpose, and in the environment it was designed and constructed for. Maintenance will not allow safe use of equipment in circumstances it is not intended for, eg using a tablelamp as a hand lamp, or equipment that is not waterproof in a wet environment."

 

The dutyholder rather than the person carrying out the PAT has a duty to ensure that the equipment is suitable for use, but the tester can give advice on this.

 

The tester should take the equipment out of use and give it to management. Management must then decide if it can be used safely elsewhere, provided it has passed its check.

 

Regards

 

Oonagh

[paulears]

All well and good, but if items are collected up and presented for inspection without indication of where they came from - how would the tester know it came from the swimming pool?

[Ynot]

I have to say Tony that we fail many open backed PAR Can's with basic ceramic holders because of the risk of reaching in to the can to adjust the beam and touching live conductors - either by staff or students. A "PARSafe" costs relatively little to buy and generally any new PAR's we sell come with the device anyway - we have had some closed back cans arrive over the last couple of years but there's no issue with them.

 

Sorry, Ian, but unless the ceramic lamp base is damaged or the wires have come loose, or the insulation has bared near the base (all of which would be very valid fails) I really don't see why just the fact that the bases are ceramic would be anywhere near a fail.

 

The lantern could be in pristine 'out of the box' condition with a ceramic base (as I suspect you may still be able to buy them as such) so falling back on that old statement 'use within manufacturer's instructions/guidelines' there would be nothing at all wrong with that lantern. The MIs aren't likely to say 'Don't use in schools', or 'Only use this PAR can if you replace the perfectly suitable lamp base we've given you with something else'.

 

The simple fact I will quote in this situation is that ALL stage lighting is potentially harmful. They get HOT. There is ELECTRICITY connected to them. And they can be flipping BRIGHT. But even in a school environment, the responsibility for their safe use lies AT ALL TIMES with the adult teaching/supervision staff. Where schools allow students to 'do' lighting, the kids must be educated about all three of these dangers (and more) and most importantly how to avoid getting bitten by heat or electrickery, or being blinded if they look into the lamps too closely! If the school doesn't allow them the joys of using the gear, then the kit either gets locked away and taken out only be a responsible adult or not used at all. I've been in schools where all those situations are prevalent.

 

Many theatre lanterns have lamp bases that are easily removed from the housings. S4 profiles for example can be removed with a simple thumbscrew. Old Patt 264s etc had a quarter turn captive fixing. Quartets need a screwdriver, but can still reveal the lamp tray easily. It's only slightly harder in each of these cases for an inquisitive student to get themselves burned or even shocked - IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SHOWN PROPERLY. Which is why I despair at all those schools who won't let their students (the ones who WANT to) get hands-on experience with proper instruction on safety working.

[themadhippy]

I really don't see why just the fact that the bases are ceramic would be anywhere near a fail.

Does the cable going into the base have a single layer of insulation or is there 2 layers? As far as im aware single insulation isnt suitable protection for something that can be touched