Advice on my future

[nothingatall666]

Hey,

 

I am beginning to plan my next 3 years or so and am In desperate need of some advice/opinions.

 

I graduated from a college last July with a Triple Distinction in BND Production Arts.

In the next year I plan to get a few short course training and certificates such as PAT testing, scaffolding training and possibly pyro training (Previous tutors said it was one of the most fun things they had done)

After this year I really want to get a degree - and I am looking at sound engineering courses as it is the area which I have the most passion for.

 

I am looking at the two-year BA/BSc (Hons) Audio Production degree from SAE in london - as it is only two years and based in london.

 

I know that as it is a private institute, the usual 'uni' life might be lost which will be a slight shame - but I really want to gain more knowledge and experience in Sound Engineering both in live and studio settings

I think that training as a recording engineer will enable me to learn things with a focus on perfect, high-quality audio and will get in the details of mics and mixing which is what I would like to improve on - I have the speaker end, and lighting all pretty covered to a reasonable standard I think.

 

I don't have any idea what area of the entertainment and media world I will eventually go in to. I like to think it will be in sound. - but thats even if I can get in to the saturated industry anyway.

 

I shall try and summarise what I think my plan is..

 

This year:

? get more experience in anything and everything

 

Gain a few short course certificates,

• PAT testing,
  
• Scaffolding Training,
  
• Basic Pyro Training,
  
• First Aid Training,
  

Any other important ones I should consider? any of those that will be useless?

 

If I apply to SAE (or another studio based course) should I look at doing this training so I can give myself a head-start:

? Apple Certified Pro - Logic 9

? Avid - Pro Tools 101 Training

 

 

Year two and three:

 

SAE London - BA/BSc (Hons) Audio Production

- is this the best place? what are opinions of SAE from professionals? any experiences here?

 

Should I look at other places and different courses? Derby Uni, LIPA, Rose Bruford?

 

Does anyone have any advice on accommodation in london? (are these (quite pricey) student accommodation halls the way to go?) any tips?

Whilst studying should I get a job as a casual tech/usher or should I focus on studying?

 

Onward

look for work in london at the end of my course? another course?

 

 

Sorry, I have so many questions!

 

Any opinions or advice is really appreciated! especially anyone with first hand experience.

 

Thanks!

Harry

 

 

[ Edit to add: my 200th post :) ]

[GridGirl]

Another useful short course to do is an IPAF course - on as many different types of MEWP as you can. While a certificate is not *required* to operate a cherry picker/scissor lift/genie, a lot of places require you to have a "ticket" to do so.

[brainwave-generator]

I feel you are in danger of spending a lot of money to go and bark up a very wrong tree.

 

The short courses, yes, are great. I would definitely do your PAT Test course (great to find work as a warehouse wallah, which is a good place to start), IPAF (particularly 3A and 3B), First Aid at Work, and of course your regular driving license will be a big boost. Scaffold course? Join Showstars or Showforce (local crews) and within 3 months you'll be a scaffold ninja and you'll have been paid for your time.

 

The long, sound engineering course? Generally pointless. There are hundreds of them over the country, and they all produce 99% complete failures that expect to graduate then go FOH for U2 within 6 weeks and bypass the whole cable coiling and deck shifting aspect of life. As a result, the industry opinion of those courses is quite dim, and whilst yes you will learn the SKILLS, don't expect to really get any closer to your goal. If you do want to do one, London is the place to go, as you can join all the local crews and at least get some valuable work experience in whilst at University, as that is what will get you the work.

 

If you are going to go down that route, I would say SSR Live Sound course. It's the most tailored to the industry, the SAE courses are geared towards working in one of the top 50 studios in the world, which unfortunately will never happen to you. Well, it might, but you have to treat it as if it won't. If you do get to work in one of those, you'll have gathered more than enough experience to do so without SAE's input.

 

Give up with the studio thing, it's going nowhere and it's a dying industry. Everyone is busting a gut to get unpaid work, I don't understand that logic. In this job, even the entry-level stagehands get paid work every week.

 

Casual work is the only way forward if you are going to study. It is the casual work that will get you the jobs, not the degree.

 

I would just move to London and work as full time local crew being honest. Ditch the whole studying thing, a sound engineering degree is pointless in the sound engineering trade, as they want professional experience not a qualification that shows you could do it in a nice controlled academic environment; and a sound engineering degree is pointless in the non sound engineering trades, as it means nothing to them. So, all in all, sound engineering degree... pointless! If you want to go to University, study Physics. That'll look good when approaching sound companies, proof you actually understand how sound works, not just understanding how Pro Tools works. But if you want to work in this trade, 2 or 3 years in the local crews busting your ass will likely land you far more work than studying for a degree in it, make you money rather than costing you it, and give you all the contacts you need.

 

If after 2-3 years local crew you still can't get a job, it means you are a just a twonk and you wouldn't have got a job with a degree either.

[cedd]

Just a quick observation, how many of the courses you're looking at doing require a refresher? My climbing certificate certainly only lasts a couple of years. If you're doing them before starting a couple of years at uni, then will you actually get to use them in the real world before they need more money spending on refreshers?

 

Knowledge lasts as long as you can remember it, but does the piece of paper saying you know it last that long? I've just done my climbing refresher last week and got an awful lot out of it, even though I've done it twice before.

 

If these courses are "added extras" to get your uni admissions tutor to notice you then fair enough, but if you intend on using them purely for their real world value then might it be more cash efficient to wait until the back end of your degree? Doesn't have to be after, maybe in the holidays?

 

Some courses like first aid are in my opinion necessities for daily life anyway - first aid being one of them, so perhaps get that done anyway.

[mac.calder]

First Aid is always good to have - it does require refreshers etc, but I would absolutely suggest you do it.

 

Pyro... Probably FAIRLY useless if your aim is to go into sound design. If it is an interest, sure, do it for interests sake but it will be of little to no help to you in my opinion if your aim is to specialise.

 

Scaffold training... hmm... I would suggest getting rigger training before scaffold training... There are uses for scaffold - but 9 times out of 10, it's something you would pay a scaffolding company for when it comes to erecting a large scaff structure for a PA etc. As far as scaff towers, scaff clamping between lighting bars and things like that, I don't think a course will be of much assistance. Erecting a scaff tower is largely an exercise in following manufacturers instructions. Bridging and needling are all about understanding loads.

 

EWP training is always a good one to have. If you are planning to work live events, do it.

 

PAT testing... If taught correctly can be a useful course. If done incorrectly it is a course about how to plug an appliance into a device, then stick a sticker on the lead.

[kerry davies]

Harry, you don't appear to be doing so badly thus far. Good to see you want to gain experience in anything and everything as that will reward you more than anything else.

 

While you are working in the sector the needs will be revealed as you progress. I personally think that IPAF/Forklift/WAH/PASMA tickets etc. are very useful but not if you never get to use them. Nobody, least of all yourself, knows exactly where and what you will end up doing so the gaining of certificates which do indeed lapse, could be a waste of time and money.

 

Keep working and keep learning, everyone else in the industry is doing that because it changes all the time. Flexibility is a very useful asset in this game so listen and look for the needs that arise and take decisions accordingly. Good luck, enjoy the ride.

[nothingatall666]

Thank-you all for your responces :)

 

I didn't think about the expiatory of training, looks like it may make more sense to do some training at the end of uni..

 

However I think I will still do some training bits this year, like first aid (been meaning to do it for a while), PAT testing (any suggestions on the best course that will actually teach me?).

 

IPAF Training might be put on hold until I look in to work which I will be using MEWPs

 

 

Thanks for all your suggestions so far!

[nothingatall666]

 

The long, sound engineering course? Generally pointless. There are hundreds of them over the country, and they all produce 99% complete failures that expect to graduate then go FOH for U2 within 6 weeks and bypass the whole cable coiling and deck shifting aspect of life. As a result, the industry opinion of those courses is quite dim, and whilst yes you will learn the SKILLS, don't expect to really get any closer to your goal. If you do want to do one, London is the place to go, as you can join all the local crews and at least get some valuable work experience in whilst at University, as that is what will get you the work.

 

Its the skills that I'm looking to get, I know that becoming FOH engineer will take years, if not decades. but if the opportunity came I would like to have the knowledge on how to mix things to their best.. and I still believe that If I was up against someone without a degree, It would make the the preferred choice because I have that qualification. I already have a few years of experience and I think that I need to learn more in this area before I can comfortably step up on what experience I get, However if doing a course which is more focused on production as a whole will be more beneficial then I should maybe look in to other courses?

 

If you are going to go down that route, I would say SSR Live Sound course. It's the most tailored to the industry, the SAE courses are geared towards working in one of the top 50 studios in the world, which unfortunately will never happen to you. Well, it might, but you have to treat it as if it won't. If you do get to work in one of those, you'll have gathered more than enough experience to do so without SAE's input.

 

If I was going to spend any money, I would prefer to gain a government recognised degree - SSR give out their own certificates which are in effect, worthless compared to SAE's BA/BSc (Honours) degree (validated by Middlesex University) what I am looking to get out of a university course is knowledge that can be applied to my future experience.

[themadhippy]

Forget uni and all the other bullhit courses.Find your local small scale pa-lighting -staging companys and get work with them,youll start at the bottom but youll learn more in 3 days that will be usefull for the rest of your carea than 3 years at a uni will ever teach you,once youve got a regular work load start looking at short courses that compliment the work your doing,not much use having a pyro ticket if you spend every gig laying out the mains infrastructor.

nd I still believe that If I was up against someone without a degree, It would make the the preferred choice because I have that qualification.

bowlocks. id rather someone who can do the job hands on rather than somone whos spent 3 years doing gigs on paper

[J Pearce]

You make a good point hippy, but if you want to work for larger institutions that aren't necessarily based in the entertainment trade, such as councils etc a degree can be very useful. It is often specified as essential on job specifications.

[themadhippy]

but if you want to work for larger institutions that aren't necessarily based in the entertainment trade, such as councils etc a degree can be very useful.

Realy? ive been employed by 2 councils and dont have a degree

[GridGirl]

My view on degrees is that they aren't perhaps for everyone, but they are the right thing for some people. If you feel like it's the right thing for you (and nothingatall, I suspect you do!) then go for it. I have a degree (in psychology, as it happens!) and also a diploma in Performance Technology (no degree courses in New Zealand...) and I don't regret doing either - I don't feel like they were a waste of my time at all. The skills I picked up in the two years of my diploma course were greater than the skills I would have picked up in two years freelancing; I didn't hold the opinion that once I graduated I'd walk into the top job on a big show, but rather that I had the skills and knowledge to be a valuable team member and be able to go into a "junior" position on a show and do a good job of it, then work my way up the ladder from there. I guess what I mean is that I saw it as a "kickstart" into the industry really. I agree with J Pearce in that sometimes a degree can be useful in getting a job - it's what you know that will keep the job for you though!

[the kid]

It is being pushed quite a bit at the moment, have you looked at anything from the backstage academy ?

[Simon Lewis]

Blue Room often gets in a tizz when this sort of question comes up. Most will argue for the route they have actually taken, and will point to examples of failure in other pathways.

 

The key thing for you is to explore what each of the options available to you can offer, and how this might fit in with your medium and long term goals.

 

There is a lot to be said for learning on the job, so getting work and getting experience is a valuable way forward. Some do very well out of this, "create their own luck", happen to be in the right place at the right time etc., and land interesting, exciting and well paid work. Others may find that the work they get is mundane and repeititive, and all of the old adages about being the first in and last out, and forever driving an overloaded Sprinter up the M5 at 3am ring true.

 

 

So would a degree be worthwhile? Well you need to look at what they offer quite carefully, and also find out what jobs their graduates go into - both after graduation, and longer term. That will give some indication as to whether they are any good for our industry.

 

You also need to work out whether you are looking mainly for training (how to work it) or education (how it works). Both (in my opinion) are needed, but it's possible to be trained and dim, or educated and useless. You would want your brain surgeon to have exemplary knowledge of advanced medicine, and excellent practical skills in surgery!

 

Why not sound out some of the courses and see what they have to offer? Ask some hard questions, and check what the students think of the course. It may be that you find a course that is right for you, or you decide to work for now and just see where it leads. University isn't for everyone, and I would never want to see someone saddled with student loans just because it seemed like a good thing to do...

 

 

Simon

[Jivemaster]

Start with the things that application forms demand, English and Maths to GCSE standard, your studies and career will fall without them. See if you can learn to read music as that opens opera ballet and musical theatre too. You need to get some academic vocational training AND a lot of real on the job training, starting with the things that do not time expire.

 

"pyro training (Previous tutors said it was one of the most fun things they had done) " --0700 call spend a little time rigging and a lot waiting and press ten buttons at 10PM Clear up and leave by midnight30. And you call that fun??