Employment with Qualifications OR Experience?

[Kaz10Sylvester]

Help!? I have just finished my Alevels, and I'm predicted to get 3 A grades, and I want to progress to get a future career working within the backstage industry.

 

Over the past year I have been sending out my CV to various theatres in my local area (North Wales/Chester) to see if they will take me on. All of them came back with reply 'No'. :/

 

I understand that this might be because I might not have enough experience to be able to work within a fully-functioning theatre right away.

Within my time at my high school, I have spent over 7 years within the drama department, learning as much as possible, as I love theatre so much that I wanted to have a future career out of it.

 

I have done lighting, sound, automation and stage management solidly for regular school events (for the public) for 4 years, as well as completing two work experiences at Theatre Clwyd, Mold and Pavilion Theatre, Rhyl. I have also performed with the 'Suitcase Theatre Company' for the past two years, operating sound for their performances.

 

I have now been applying for universities to go onto their stage management courses. This is now my question :-

 

"As an employer, what do you look for in your staff? Someone who has loads of experience but no qualifications, or someone with a qualification but no experience?"

If someone can help, please feel free to give as much advice as possible, as this might sway the way I choose to go. Also if you know of any contacts or courses local to here (I can't find any), it would be extreamly appriciated.

 

Thanks.

[jamed2017]

Hello,

 

In my experience people want a bit of both.

 

This topic has been covered allot on the blueroom and if you have a search around I'm sure you'll find the answer to your question.

 

 

This article from onstagelighting http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/learn-stage-lighting/the-best-way-to-learn-stage-lighting/ might also be of help to you, although it's geared towards lighting it can be applied to the areas your looking at.

[Jivemaster]

First please remember that professional experience recently is what employers are looking for, usually Amateur experience counts about half it's time and school experience counts about half of that. Unless you have done something really special experience before the age of 16 doesn't count.

 

Remember also that all entertainment places are watching their budgets very tightly, there may be no vacancies simply because there is no money to pay the wages.

[erroneousblack]

What would put me off about your application would be the claims of things you've done "solidly", especially automation. I can't think in what way a school child would be allowed anywhere near automation. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if such claims had landed on my desk they would have gone in the bin, that and the fact the first thing you put is "actress"!

 

That and the over emphasing, under-lining and font size changes. It's never good.

[paulears]

Mr Black is spot on here - Work in theatre 16 and under gets discounted totally, because we all know that as it's illegal to 'work' in theatres, the best it gets is been there and helped. I've actually got quite used to getting padded out CVs and certain things give the game away. It's practically impossible to have skills in so many areas to any level - so your skills are rather wide and rather thin.

 

I got recently a CV from a girl just graduated from uni, and again - it was clear to me that her degree wasn't in a related area, because there was a fair bit of skirting around and glossing over. However, I did have half a dozen shows coming up where a pair of hand at any level would have been handy - so I emailed her and asked her to ring me, which she did. I deliberately used jargon, and spoke to her as if she was experienced, and some things went woosh over her head, while others brought a better response. The shows will be low key, and not too stressful, and I can rotate the others to cover - so I've taken her on, and we'll see.

 

I suspect your CV reads a bit like BS. We know you haven't done any in-depth work in these areas, so if we take your age and your CV content (think what happens on the Apprentice to claims on a CV) things are a bit of a mismatch. I've been at this for years, and wouldn't dream of putting automation on my CV - what would happen when people asked me to explain what I'd done? 7 years in a drama department. Harry Potter did 7 years at Hogwarts, and we all know what he was like at 11! You also confuse us with performing AND doing sound. Sound could mean for an unamplified play, pressing play when the train goes by? It could on the other hand mean you specified, designed and installed a complex system and have become expert at setting systems up with EASE - 'doing sound' isn't specific.

 

Your way of explaining is just too school biased. Many of us know what happens in schools and A Levels rather than BTEC also tells us that your training is a bit thin - with your last two critical years being divided in 3. The technical component of A Levels in our area - which is usually dance and dram/performing arts is minimal, and from the performance perspective, you could have A grades without ever having taken part in a full, properly produced show - it's not necessary, or even expected for A Levels.

 

I hope you have some luck - maybe one day, you new CV that contains real detail will land on somebodies desk, just as something pops up. If it arrives when nothing is in the wind, it'll probably get filed in the circular container - as there will be many others already in the filing cabinet.

 

If you have some real experience, we can probably help you word it suitably - so feel free to tell us what experience you actually have, and then we can suggest how best to promote this stuff to prospective employers.

good luck

Paul

[Pete McCrea]

I'd take a 70/30 mix based more on experience for a tech role. Education is great. But actually understanding what it's like in the real world is a whole lot more valuable.

 

Please don't take this as a disrespectful comment, but school experience really won't count for much in the real world. However being keen to learn (and ideally first time), recognising that you don't know everything and are willing to be taught, as well as being happy to do everything (making tea, taking tape off cables, brushing the stage etc) will go a long way.

[Bryson]

How about you let us (or some of us) take a look at the CV? PM it to me and I'll look over it if you want. Also, given that I work thousands of miles away, then I won't be one of these prospectiv employers so you're safe there...

[Glyn Edwards]

Please also remember people only actively take staff on if there is a need for them. At present I don't have any jobs available, consequently any CV I receive gets a polite "thankyou, but no".

It may not be you / your CV, but simply an absence of work.

[brainwave-generator]

As others have said, I think your CV actually descredits you more than it credits you.

 

At your age, to say you've been working in theatre solidly for 7 years is nothing better than a lie. How do we know? Because we've ALL been to school, we all know that at school, your core subjects are what you do SOLIDLY and things like drama and theatre are second best. Also that, it's simply illegal for you to do many of the things we'd call WORK, so you probably haven't done that either. At best, you've had a 7-year introduction to theatre that will prepare you for the first steps in the professional industry.

 

If I read your CV, and the CV of somebody who said "I've done 2 years amateur theatre, where I have done x, y, and z and am interested and keen to take my career further', I'd actually probably take them. Because they're not pretending to know it all already, and I can see that I can employ them as a stagehand and let them crack on. Nobody wants a know-it-all that knows nothing. They really annoy everyone.

 

I would revamp your CV to say you've done this that and the other and have a solid interest in it, and want to take your career onwards by further experience in a professional environment; rather than proclaiming to be the most qualified man in the house despite not being old enough to drink alcohol yet. Remember that some of the people you're sending it to are going to have started in theatre before you were born, so when you start telling them you've got 'solid experience' in more things than they'd consider themselves to have 'solid experience' in, your CV only has one destination... and it's generally made of metal, of a conical shape and has other pieces of screwed up paper in it.

[paulears]

Thinking about it, it would be great to actually get a CV that says "I don't know very much, but I learn quickly, I make excellent tea, can run a broom, and am pretty strong. I'm very reliable, communicate well with strangers, and mix well with other staff. I'd love to work with you, and am sure I'd fit in and be really useful". Damn honest, and I'd probably want to talk to them!

[brainwave-generator]

Thinking about it, it would be great to actually get a CV that says "I don't know very much, but I learn quickly, I make excellent tea, can run a broom, and am pretty strong. I'm very reliable, communicate well with strangers, and mix well with other staff. I'd love to work with you, and am sure I'd fit in and be really useful". Damn honest, and I'd probably want to talk to them!

 

You may as well be honest, because if you lie, by the end of the first day your new employer who has been doing the job 10x longer than you, will have seen through the bull and decided that not only are you an inexperienced lampie / noise boy / vidiot / hand / rigger / whatever... you are a lying lampie / noise boy / vidiot / hand / rigger / whatever. I find it's best just to be honest, and let them help you, rather than claim to know it all already when you quite obviously know very little.

 

At 18, nobody expects you to be showing the skills of a stadium-tour-production-manager. They just want to see the enthusiasm, the desire to work hard as part of a team, and enough knowledge and experience just to get you off the ground. As an 18 year old, nobody is going to employ you as anything more than a trainee at whatever it is anyway.

[kerry davies]

That looks very much like our Katies' CV, Paul.

 

She made tea for the entire staff at Wall To Wall rather than do an interview an ended up with her photo holding an Oscar and a BAFTA. She always wanted to work in rock and roll and indeed started a degree course but learned it was crap, then tried out several things like film and record companies. Worked with me on some high profile gigs. Did her thing of self discovery and lived in a few places before she joined the RAF and on Friday passed out as top trainee.

 

Giving advice on what to do, where to study, what courses to do is really rather hubristic of us oldies when an 18 year old has absolutely no idea of where they will end up. Ye Gods, I don't know where I will end up and I am nearly 63! All we ever did with Katie was support her in whatever she did, maybe BR members should think about how they got where they are now and how accidental that was before advising on courses and actions? :unsure:

[paulears]

If we're into honesty - I'd cheerfully admit that I always wanted to be able to fix things, and TV, Radio and the new video recorders on the horizon seemed good to me - especially sound. So I applied to the BBC, got an interview in radio and failed miserably because I tried to explain to the interviewer what bias current did. Of course, I hadn't a clue, and as he was head of engineering at the time, he explained it to me, and didn't give me the job! I went to college and did electronics and when I qualified, I got a job in the audio repair department of a hire company. After two weeks, I realised that not a single one of my colleagues actually liked their jobs, so I went into the customer sales and hire dept. I did the schools and oil companies who were just putting a toe into the video water. So U-matics to people like Shell for boardroom and the off-shore industry, and Phillips for the videos for schools and colleges. The firm were quite happy for me to learn as much as I could, so I did odds and ends for the BBC - nothing exciting really - a bit of cable bashing and rigging for OBs, and some lighting for the county council's drama and arts centres. I discovered I was much better at talking, explaining and making things happen than I would ever have been fixing things - but the soldering skills have remained really useful over the years. By the time I was 25 I started to know which direction to go - but up until then tried as many things as I could. I've never become really expert at anything, but I'm ok at a lot of things.

 

The point I'm making badly is that the thing I thought I wanted to do, and trained for - was actually wrong, but it doesn't matter. I've had a major change in direction every ten to fifteen years. If at some stage, like me you need more qualifications, you get them - I did a days teaching, liked it, so went off on the PGCE route and became a teacher. To be honest, I can't imagine doing the same job for ever, like some colleagues have - I'd go mad. When it starts to get dull, move on! I've got no interest in gaining any more qualifications unless they're vital to something I want to do. There are downsides too, I've got two pensions - neither anywhere near as good as promised, and now I'm self-employed I don't get holidays, security, sickness pay or anything apart from being able to choose what I do - and that, I've discovered is exactly how I like it. When I worked for other people I was quite obsessed with money, oddly, now that I can choose if I want to work hard or not, as long as I have enough money to live, I'm actually happier and less stressed. Despite being involved with education, I can see where it works and where it doesn't.

[indyld]

This article from onstagelighting http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/learn-stage-lighting/the-best-way-to-learn-stage-lighting/ might also be of help to you, although it's geared towards lighting it can be applied to the areas your looking at.

 

Just to say, there is perhaps an even more relevant article at OSL Education - What Do You Need To Get A Job? which is based on a series of interviews (linked from the main article) with different industry employers and professionals. Essentially, the answer from the industry gurus is a bit of both - as is the consensus in the many discussions here on the BR.

 

Cheers

[ramdram]

KXS, whilst wishing you the best of luck in actually getting your As, getting to the place you want to get to etc. it might be a shrewd notion to start making Plan B, C, D and so on.

 

Your "research" revealed that your local theatres had no vacancies for inexperienced staff. A few phone calls to other parts of the country may reveal that other theatres have similar opportunities, ie none. It is very unlikely you just happened to chance on the only theatres in UK who were not recruiting.

 

Your CV positively overwhelms "the" reader. The folk you hope will employ you are not going to believe half what you say simply because you are too young to have covered very much in depth. (See above comments.) Folk who run theatres, the ones I know, are very pragmatic, very professional and cannot abide, at all, a wannabe or dilettante. I would say it is easier to break out of Dartmoor than break into the main theatre, backstage, in Plymouth.

 

Were I you, I would (re)consider very, very seriously your plans to find a career in theatre. I would be casting about for careers where employment prospects are considerably better that behind the stage.

 

Then you can become a volunteer at any local amdram company (slight hyperbole) and enjoy what will become your pastime or hobby without wondering where the next job is coming from.

 

In my experience, for what it's worth, most amdram companies have very few backstage or tech bods. I find I get so many invitations (I can't say offers...there's no cash involved) to do sound or lighting or any other technician task that I can pick and choose whatever interests me at the time...and I will NOT be rushing to do another Ayckbourn in a hurry believe you me.

 

You may consider the above responses as less than encouraging but you did ask the question and nobody on this forum would be unkind enough to kid you that the "theatre" is easy to get into. It's not, and, at the usual risk of provoking a storm of protest, waving your certificates at the majority of theatres just won't cut it.