Quick qestion for anyone with a deeper understanding of lighting desks than me, Error codes.

[The Boogie Man]

Hi all, I recently got a zero 88 xls from ebay that is showing error codes.
I just wondered if anyone could tell me if the problem they describe is terminal or fixable?
I've included pictures of both the desk error codes and the manuals description of them.
Anyone make head or tail of what it is telling me and if there is something to be done to fix, or is it now a boat anchor?
Cheers 
Baz

[IRW]

I'm sure someone more familiar with these desks will come along shortly, but the error you have seems to be "Analog input ICs not reading 'Vref' correctly". I wonder if this could be related to an elderly/dead internal battery? Either that, or maybe a fault on the power supply?

Edited March 19, 2023 by IRW

[Glyn Edwards]

Strikes me as a question for @ianknight!

Can you help out here Ian?

[indyld]

Does this stop the desk from functioning for your purpose? Doesn't strike me that this fault code is particularly life critical. 

From a repair point of view, likely fixable. I personally loved the XL and XLS, really useful desks.

[kgallen]

Post on the Zero88 forum, Keith’s on a roll at the moment answering questions about 30 year old desks. 
 

https://www.zero88.com/forum/forum/83-other-discontinued-products/

[indyld]

14 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Post on the Zero88 forum, Keith’s on a roll at the moment answering questions about 30 year old desks.

This is the answer. 

My personal solution to things I cant work out for myself about old Z88 stuff is to phone Keith. 

If he's active online and helping, great way to do it. He'll know exactly what it is and how to solve. 

 

[ianknight]

Thanks @Glyn Edwards 🙂

@The Boogie Man
First 'position' with faults on Lightmaster is check & replace the internal battery  - many of theses desks have been happily used for years without any thought to replacing the battery. Once the desk is open to check the battery - you will see whether or not the battery has leaked - if it has then it's very likely the desk is terminal... The chemicals inside the battery tend to creep along the copper tracks from the battery (but under the solder resist) so causing corrosion damage which can be tricky to track down and repair.  The internal battery maintains the RAM inside the desk which is used for internal lookup tables, patch tables and so on so if the internal RAM is below it's nominal operating voltage then errors like the one's shown will appear - sometimes if you leave the desk switched on & do a Super User reset, the fault clears temporarily.

The Lightmaster series was one of the unsung heroes of the Zero88 range (it got overshadowed by the Sirius) & I get the impression from the enquiries I get that there's still lots of them about & they're very loved - in fact I replaced the battery in one for a customer a week or so ago, wash down the front panel & it's almost like new. It would be worth opening the desk yourself (if you're confident) or getting someone like me to do so in order to check the battery - you might well be lucky and just have a dead battery 🙂

[DrV]

+1 (actually +half a dozen) on the battery. Those *#+"! Mempacs are an absolute disaster. The pernicious way the innards creep along under the solder resist is so harmful. Not limited to Zero88 desks of course. Strand MX & GSX etc. have the same issues. 

[The Boogie Man]

Ok, so first check is the battery, will do.
Is there any other problem that might be the reason for no DMX output?
I can see chases playing on the desk and I can access the different parts of the desk. 
It all appears to be doing something, I just carn't see any of it outside of the desk.
Cheers and thanks for the replies.
 

[ianknight]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

Ok, so first check is the battery, will do.
Is there any other problem that might be the reason for no DMX output?
I can see chases playing on the desk and I can access the different parts of the desk. 
It all appears to be doing something, I just carn't see any of it outside of the desk.
Cheers and thanks for the replies.
 

If the battery is knackered & the RAM is corrupt - the internal DMX patch tables may be corrupt so the processor might not be outputting DMX? If the desk will enter Super User - do a Reset All (which will set defaults) & then try the outputs.

Failing that - the DMX transceiver might have failed or been popped - haven't got my schematics handy on this machine but it's likely to be chip that's available still or I have a scrapper XLS that probably has one.

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers Ian, I will open it up later today and take some pics. 

[The Boogie Man]

some pics of the inside from today.
I also did a super user desk reset, which then said clear, so I assume it worked. but nothing changed.
As everything on the desk seems to do what it is supposed to do, but no emit light I was begining to question whether I had something set wrong on my lights, but no matter whhat channel I set the dimmer packs to receive on nothing comes from the desk.
I noticed that in preview I can see the yellow leds light, but in preset the green ones don't light up.
Hope the pics shed some light (no pun intended)
One thing I have just spotted the DMX output jack has 3 wires, but is 5 pin out. I have a 5 to 3 pin adapter plugged in that then goes to 3 pin dimmers, problem?
Cheers
Baz

Edited March 21, 2023 by The Boogie Man

[sleah]

The underside of the mode switch doesn't look too healthy, plus it looks like the grand master slider (& it's neighbour) is seperating.

Could it be as simple as the grand master slider not making contact so effectively staying at 0 regardless of physical position?

[ianknight]

13 hours ago, sleah said:

The underside of the mode switch doesn't look too healthy, plus it looks like the grand master slider (& it's neighbour) is seperating.

Could it be as simple as the grand master slider not making contact so effectively staying at 0 regardless of physical position?

Yeah - that could be a possibility from the looks of it too 🙂

@The Boogie Man
The DMX only uses 2 wires and a return to transmit data so your adaptor should be ok (presuming that it's wired correctly - Pin 1 to 1 - 2 to 2 - 3 to 3   --  3 pin XLRs don't go in sequence...)

The battery looks like it's been changed at some time so you might be lucky but you'll only know by removing the PCB & checking the underside to see what state the tracks are in. Otherwise, internally the desk looks in reasonable condition for its age 🙂

[The Boogie Man]

Ok, I'll have a look at the GM fader. Quite a few of them have a definate 'notch' in them.
I'll see if I can lift the board with the battery on it and get a pic.
I am also watching an xl on ebay, so I may chase that whilst I look into fixing this one.
If anyone is wondering why I am bothering with a 90s board over a modern rack unit for my show, it is because these type of boards can do midi using the keyboard notation on my comp as well as using the velocity (1-127) to set the scene levels. 
Most of the modern boards (in my price range) that I have seen only receive note on messages.