Fully accessible theatre

[mac.calder]

At the end of the day, design should be born out by the end user stories....

OP says "build an accessible theatre"... which I interpret to read "A theatre, who's intent is to provide a space for people with special needs to demonstrate their capabilities within theatre, a space optimised for those with accessibility issues". Ie: this is not a theatre intended for the 'common man' but rather is being built specifically for a special needs school or community group or similar and by extension the design should be optimised to enable this group to self-manage as much as possible

I would approach that brief very differently to how I would approach the brief of "A general use theatre, with a remit to maximise accessibility where possible."

In the case of the later I would make sure there is both ramped access and elevator access to the stage, a couple of UAT accessible backstage change rooms, accessible bio box... I might throw in a few additional cue light stations than I normally would as well...  and then the usual stuff to make it compliant with building code (including hearing augmentation, appropriate signage and lighting etc).

 

[sunray]

3 hours ago, paulears said:

A friend of mine has it pretty well, I think. He’s in a chair, permanently. All he would like is to be able to go to the toilet in a pub or restaurant, and not have to phone in advance to check it’s possible. He doesn’t want to access areas only normally available by spiral staircases or ladders, he doesn’t want to go into orchestra pits or beer cellars. He doesn’t even mind rough ground as he has click on bigger wheels and gizmos for his chair as he like going to parks and national trust places. He doesn’t get cross when he cannot get to out of the way places. He especially hates going places where he needs others to help him in and out. If he cannot do it alone, he feels he’s a burden, so he doesn’t ever press his ‘rights’ but he just wants a wee.

Messages like this gladden my heart, as many have a completely different outlook on life. I've heard complaints from people that something is not accessible to them but when they were able bodied they had no interest in visiting.

A few years back I assisted with a few events at a church while it was going through some major repairs to the roof, the whole of the chancel area and more was filled with scaffolding and walled off meaning it was no longer step free access. Instead it was 3 small single steps (tallest about 5 inches), one was easy to construct a ramp but the others involved corners and doors so able bodies were very much on hand to assist. At the flower festival every year the tower is open to the public and ordinarily the narrow spiral staircase, and for that matter the steps down to the crypt which was also open, has never been questioned however the year the scafolding was in place a number complained they were not accessible to them.

[Ynot]

18 hours ago, dje said:

.... it seems to me that people are saying nope! can't be done! on the premise that the traditionally built proscenium theatre with fly system on a slatted grid can't accommodate wheelchairs. Or thereabouts.

Definitely not!!

BUT (and this is my view on the topic overall) it doesn't matter how many areas 'we' make accessible to wheelchair users, or partially sighted users or physically less abled users (there are so many different disabilities) - whether those individuals are able, either within the limitations of their physical abilities or with the restrictions of any equipment that able bodied people aren't encumbered by, to do anything other than a bare minimum once there is what will define whether they're going to feel included as part of a tech team.
For example - you're in a studio theatre and a wheelchair bound guy/gal has been trained on a motorised winch system and therefore can sit at the console and bring trusses/bars in. (*) Great - but unless they are also physically capable (some very well may be)of actually rolling over, and humping a mover out of a case (which in all likelihood is going to mean taking it over their head height....) then they're limited by their situation.

Yes - they most certainly can wheel along and plug up the power/data along the truss, but doing so with a team of maybe half dozen otherLX types on a quick turnaround getin, where there are going to be cables all over the deck to navigate is going to take some manouvering. Of course it CAN be done, if the crew work together and have a system worked out, but it's not a job that would be practical as a casual, who'd be working with techs who arrive on the day and wouldn't have had chance to develop the co-working practice.

(*) And don't forget that in a pro venue it's likely that the flyman will have responsibilities for lowering the grid, and not necessarily getting involved in what actually goes on the barrels when they're in.

The answer to anything like this is, and always will be, "IT DEPENDS".

Because, as I said, there are so many different types and levels of disability, there's never going to be a solution that suits even a small percentage of them all. Making it practical to get a wheelchair to a fly floor is one thing - whether that person is then able to do anything of note once they are there depends entirely upon what abilities they actually have.

Anyone who thinks all things are possible is living entirely in a world with a sky of a different colour... 😞

[dje]

14 hours ago, sunray said:

I don't believe we are saying that

If I read you correctly  you are advocating a system which can be rigged from the ceiling but not by people unable to reach the ceiling to alter the rigging.

No... I'm saying that the hoists in the ceiling bring everything down to ground level so that all the work can be done at the ground.

If you want the construction site to be fully accessible as well then I think you might be taking this a bit far. But sure - I'm sure you could build scaffolding with ramps up to that level if you really wanted a person in a wheelchair to install the motors.

[dje]

3 hours ago, Ynot said:

For example - you're in a studio theatre and a wheelchair bound guy/gal has been trained on a motorised winch system and therefore can sit at the console and bring trusses/bars in. (*) Great - but unless they are also physically capable (some very well may be)of actually rolling over, and humping a mover out of a case (which in all likelihood is going to mean taking it over their head height....) then they're limited by their situation.

Yes - they most certainly can wheel along and plug up the power/data along the truss, but doing so with a team of maybe half dozen otherLX types on a quick turnaround getin, where there are going to be cables all over the deck to navigate is going to take some manouvering. Of course it CAN be done, if the crew work together and have a system worked out, but it's not a job that would be practical as a casual, who'd be working with techs who arrive on the day and wouldn't have had chance to develop the co-working practice.

There will always be some things that some disabled people just can't do. I don't think accessible has to mean everyone can do everything. A friend of mine is a quadruple amputee (Afghanistan...) and whilst he'd like a more accessible world, I think he's accepted the fact that he won't be working as a pianist anytime soon. We don't have to try and design spaces to allow anyone to do anything - just allow more people to do more things.

My suggestion on this front is that we could do more to make the stuff we do more accessible. Movers live in flight cases for protection - which is arguably less necessary in a permanent install. They could live in trolleys with the clamps exposed, and the bars brought down to a pre-determined height (mm accurate, thanks to encoders) and the lights wheeled onto the bar using side-opening clamps. 

I would say that for a theatre to be accessible, it would need procedure as much as technical provision. If there were people in wheelchairs on the team, then tossing cable all over the floor would have to be firmly off the menu. For what it's worth, I can't remember the last show I loaded in where we tossed cable all over the floor - they tend to react as badly to flight cases and set trucks as they do to wheelchairs... I find leaving them in their cases is much healthier.

I think it needs a 360 approach... building design, procedure, policies, practices. 

[Ynot]

49 minutes ago, dje said:

I think it needs a 360 approach... building design, procedure, policies, practices. 

This is the crux.

It's a LOT easier to think about accessibility in a new build, and rightly so. But altering an existing facility, whatever that is, will be of a magnitude much harder to implement changes to accomodate even a small number of disabilities.

[Jivemaster]

It may be possible to make a new venue "accessible" but usually at a cost. However how do you make big changes to vintage buildings which have possible protection over building changes (listing etc)

[sandall]

Interesting, following this thread, that until today the blind & deaf have barely been considered; those with mental issues not at all. A huge number of us have disabilities of some sort; if we want to do something beyond our physical abilities we either have to find a work-round or decide it's not practicable (I've got all my fingers & toes, but I'm never going to be a concert pianist, but that's ok). There are backstage jobs that people with mobility issues can do well, without endangering others, e.g. DSM, lx or sound op, maybe even follow-spot, but pretending that everyone can do everything if only enough money is thrown around......?

[the kid]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:29 PM, sandall said:

Interesting, following this thread, that until today the blind & deaf have barely been considered; those with mental issues not at all. A huge number of us have disabilities of some sort; if we want to do something beyond our physical abilities we either have to find a work-round or decide it's not practicable (I've got all my fingers & toes, but I'm never going to be a concert pianist, but that's ok). There are backstage jobs that people with mobility issues can do well, without endangering others, e.g. DSM, lx or sound op, maybe even follow-spot, but pretending that everyone can do everything if only enough money is thrown around......?

We had a student with downs, I was told " of the highest level you could have" and he was really not capable. as much as he wanted.  We also had a student who was autistic , and also very high level, he was great when he needed to be but was not capable without the right support OR the people around. It was not until his final shows we worked out that if he drew for the time between calls he was great. and he was a GREAT spotter. Almost golem in his specific traits.  


It is work, and it is possible, but its still "in reason" 

I still remain that certain companies, some of which are in our industry, would do great with workers who were on spectrum to make cables, and yes they might need to employ a staff member who was 100% dedicated to supporting a hand full of staff, but I would promise those cables would be done, and done well, and they could have a 2nd test. But its a fulfilling job for someone.

[kerry davies]

The council built us 4 parking bays, two of which are disabled BUT in our part of the flats there are 4 disabled drivers and two non-disabled. When I asked about her indoors and her blue badge they said "first come first served" and "there are two more bays round the corner" which is 80 metres away.

Under this government it has been decided that if a claimant can "mobilise" 50 metres, even using a wheelchair, even when they do not have a wheelchair, then they lose the mobility element of their PIP. So the council say I have to park in a disabled bay so far from my door that we no longer qualify for the blue badge because we can't claim PIP and so cannot park there.

I am not saying that this sort of Catch 22 prevents accessable theatre, far from it, but it shows that provision alone without total input from those provided for never works. Build your environment and systems around what the end user really needs not what you think s/he needs.

NB; I actually park in the disabled minibus bay because they banned them from reversing into the road yet built the drop-kerb on the wrong side so the dolly-bus can't use the dolly-bus stop. Another SNAFU by the well-intentioned. 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by kerry davies
e2a

[Jivemaster]

The problem with disability is that every person is different. Some are colourblind some have prosthetic arms or legs etc etc.

There really is NO universally suitable and sufficient adaption.