Tailing - does this mean what I think it means?

[kerry davies]

All movements must be accompanied by a hazardous/special waste consignment note. The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 (CAR2012) apply.

 

Under CDG (carriage of dangerous goods), some asbestos products may be covered by ADR Special Provision 168, if they are bound in cement, plastic or another binder so that fibres cannot escape during carriage or are manufactured articles containing asbestos, (ADR 3.3.1). Examples include asbestos cement sheets, drainpipes or vinyl floor tiles. If this applies the waste is totally exempt any compliance with CDG as it not regarded as dangerous for carriage, although the hazardous and special waste regulations and CAR2012 still apply.

The tip people seem to have interpreted the somewhat vague/contradictory regs differently in not requiring the consignment note which is why I wrote that things may have changed but I personally still wouldn't transport any asbestos, however well wrapped up. Mesothelioma is almost inevitably fatal and because of the time delay of diagnosis of from 20 to 50 years is pretty well guaranteed to be untreatable by the time of diagnosis. 12 to 21 months is the normal lifespan but the rare cases caught early can last 5 years. Very few (more or less none) survive. We may have passed the peak but it is at about 2,500 deaths a year.

 

The failure by successive governments in many countries to tackle the problem when they knew about it has left a legacy of tragedy with half the fatalities among former construction trades. As fewer die from mesothelioma in future the danger is one of complacency. Stay on the ball, it is nasty stuff.

[adam2]

I would certainly advise caution in the handling of asbestos, however for small qauntities I might be tempted to DIY rathar than engage a very costly specialist.

I have removed asbestos covered wire from vintage theatre lanterns and other appliances. I considered the risk to be acceptable with basic precaustions.

Having removed the asbestos, clean the relevant parts of the appliance with a damp cloth and then by vccuum cleaning.

Wear gloves, a respirator, and overalls. Work outside. Take a thorough shower afterwards and launder all clothing worn, not JUST the overalls.

 

Significant numbers of people have died a most unpleasant death from asbestosis, however such cases seem to be related to long term occupational exposure and not to brief, and very minor handling.

[Dave m]

If using a vacuum cleaner, ensure it's class H or better.Otherwise you could be just pumping fibres in the air

My old pipes and guttering were painted and it's quite a safe material. Nevertheless I did have all the windows open in my (estate) car.

[chelgrian]

1950s construction is amazing.

 

We think the last of the asbestos in our building has gone I do remember the removal contractors cleaning up the roof space before it was demolished and replaced with an amazing contraption which looked like a combination between a industrial hoover and a toothbrush.

[GruntPuppy]

Well, confusion reigns.

 

Having seen a photograph of the cable, a couple of asbestos specialists have come forward with opposing information. One has said "that's asbestos alright", the other "don't worry about it."

 

 

So I honestly don't know what the hell to think now... from experience, does this look like the dangerous type of cable cover to you guys?

 

[edit] If I do decide to take the risk, Cardiff Council have a free collection service for asbestos. They supply 2 bags - one clear, one overbag - for the purpose.

Edited November 21, 2020 by GruntPuppy

[Ynot]

And let's not forget that until not THAT many years ago, the brake linings on your cars were coated with asbestos...

So for a long time there was likely to be asbestos dust lying in the roadside gutters as it inevitably wore off and dropped out of the wheel housings.....

[GruntPuppy]

 

I am not up to speed on current law but it used to be that you could remove and bag up asbestos inside your premises at your own risk but once you placed it outside your door that was transportation for which a licence is required.

 

As for the NBC suit .... we had a new heating system installed a few years back and they found a fireproof sheet of asbestos through which the flue passed. They hired in the experts who built a plastic tunnel from the flue, out of the closet, down the hall, through our flat door and out through the main entrance. They had 6 guys working on 32 flats for a month with sealed box trailers to take the waste and give them somewhere to change clothes and yes, they all wore double layered suits with the top flight respirator masks that are now all the rage. All for one square of asbestos sheet a foot square with a 6 inch hole in it in each flat.

 

Can't find my NBC suit, but I do have a 6800 series mask with fresh filters, heavy duty vinyl gloves, overshoe covers, and an old head-to-toe waterproof suit. Still in 2 minds about this...

[Tomo]

So I honestly don't know what the hell to think now... from experience, does this look like the dangerous type of cable cover to you guys?

 

[edit] If I do decide to take the risk, Cardiff Council have a free collection service for asbestos. They supply 2 bags - one clear, one overbag - for the purpose.

The cable's knackered anyway, so you have to replace it regardless.

 

Best to assume the worst.

It's a small quantity anyway, so you only need to launder that carpet and take up Cardiff's kind offer.

[GruntPuppy]

The cable's knackered anyway, so you have to replace it regardless.

 

Best to assume the worst.

It's a small quantity anyway, so you only need to launder that carpet and take up Cardiff's kind offer.

 

Thankfully not my carpet - seller's pic :) I've already mopped down and thoroughly hoovered the laminate flooring, thoroughly hoovered walls and furnishings, barely-damp rag dusted off all hard surfaces. I say "I", I mean "we" - my flatmate has helped me immensely. Just as well, since I'm a little bit disabled...

 

Sadly the light age, model and cable appearance do match up with some pics online of asbestos-bearing cable, I'm somewhat gutted by this. I may well take the risk myself and do a removal and scrubdown. So far the strand collection is up to a pair of 44's, a 23, a 23n, and a 123. This 23n comes with an inspection tag from my date of birth, I really don't want to lose it, soppy sentimental sod that I am.

 

I've started an eBay return on this, with the seller warned they will need to be able to organise collection by a courier willing and able to repack and carry asbestos, just in case.

 

I think it's time I bowed to the inevitable, and admitted to myself that I have a Strand problem.

Edited November 21, 2020 by GruntPuppy

[Junior8]

IN the 1970 Rank Strand Catalogue they are simply specifying '30" of heat resisting cable' but the few unrevised Strand pages included say heat resisting conductors and the pic of the Patt 45 definitely has seperate conductors. In 1969 Furse were defo still using single conductors. Beyond that all you can give is the threadbare advice that while all asbestos cable will be old not all old cable will be asbestos. All you can say with any certainty from the picture is that this is probably the original cable and should have been replaced years ago.

[adam2]

My linkI suspect that the cable pictured is covered in rayon, and not asbestos. I have seen similar on various vintage appliances. Rayon covering over rubber was popular at one time, the rayon protected the rubber from wear and improved the appearance.

 

I would however proceed carefully, following AS A MINIMUM the precautions that I earlier suggested, just in case it is asbestos.

 

Gloves, respirator, overalls, vacuum cleaner, work outdoors, launder all clothing and take a shower after the work.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by adam2

[bigclive]

The only time I've knowingly found blue asbestos (one of the most dangerous types) was in an ex-cinema, in the wall between the projection room and auditorium.

The small hole was immediately covered and all work on that wall stopped. It's often better to leave existing asbestos undisturbed if possible.

 

For reference, blue asbestos (crocidolite) looks like blue fluffy tumble dryer lint.

 

The most common asbestos in building materials was white asbestos known as chrysotile. It poses much less risk as the body can naturally expel it. But again, it's best left undisturbed, and in the case of suspected asbestos in sheeting, a spray of water with a squirt of PVA glue mixed in will help bond loose fibres.

 

Most of the older people here will have been routinely exposed to asbestos when younger in the construction industry. Fortunately in the case of the most common chrysotile asbestos we probably haven't suffered significant effects. (So don't let it prey on your mind.)

 

For the cable in the original post, I'd suggest taking the light outdoors, wearing a mask, and just cutting it off cleanly and putting it in a bag, then another bag. You can get packs of asbestos marked double bags online. The disposal usually involves it being placed at the bottom of new landfill sites. I'm sure that plenty of stuff like that gets bagged and binned quietly behind the scenes. A thorough hosing should wash any residual dust out of the light.

 

China still uses white asbestos and gets through so much that they actually import it from Russia. (Keep this in mind when dealing with grey imports.)

 

 

Most asbestos disposal is profit motivated theatre. I'm not a fan of exploitation of minimum wage labour in paper suits to do the dirty work.

By using the same labour all the time the companies expose them to risk over years of work. It's often better to leave sheet asbestos in place than remove it, as no amount of drama and polytunnels will prevent the disturbed asbestos from causing more contamination than if it had just been left in situ and sprayed with PVA.

 

It's worth mentioning that everyone has asbestos fibres in their lungs, as it's a naturally occurring fibre that is carried by wind. As with most industrial hazards, it's the deliberate concentration of it that caused the problems.

 

Does anyone here know of theatre workers who have succumbed to asbestosis purely from theatre related work? Keeping in mind that white asbestos was used as fake snow at one point.

[GruntPuppy]

My linkI suspect that the cable pictured is covered in rayon, and not asbestos. I have seen similar on various vintage appliances. Rayon covering over rubber was popular at one time, the rayon protected the rubber from wear and improved the appearance.

 

I would however proceed carefully, following AS A MINIMUM the precautions that I earlier suggested, just in case it is asbestos.

 

Gloves, respirator, overalls, vacuum cleaner, work outdoors, launder all clothing and take a shower after the work.

 

Did the flame test, it's not rayon :(

 

Seller is going to arrange collection. Gutted. I wasn't particularly looking for a 123n, but one with an inspection tag of my date of birth I couldn't resist. Oh well, the collection reduces to 4 :(

 

That said, if a 123hn comes up... :) or a second 23 that I can convert to a 23w so I can have one standard and one wide throw ;)

 

[edit]

 

I think we're going to have some fun here. Seller is supposed to be sending a courier on Tuesday morning, I've just pointed out to them the regulations relating to the removal of the lamp/associated items from my premises, including receipt for removal, legal docs required, etc. They requested a phone call, but I've tried three times and they're not answering for some strange reason. Shame really, as this is cannot be cheap. I'd take advantage of Cardiff Council's free removal service (the supplied bags are big enough to hold the whole lamp) and photo-document the bagging, collection and paperwork, but that would entail a conversation first, I think.

Edited November 22, 2020 by GruntPuppy

[GruntPuppy]

Well, he finally rang back - as the saying goes, "bloody nice bloke." He's coming down to collect the item himself, so that's one less thing to worry about - and is taking the appropriate precautions.

 

I'll be sorry to see it go, but I'm erring firmly on the side of caution these days.

[Jivemaster]

Old steam ships were an asbestos hazard in manufacture or repair because of the asbestos lagging on the steam pipes, In service they were considered to be made safe as long as the asbestos was totally painted.