paper props and flameproofing?

[gnomatron]

So I have an international show visiting which uses paper props; they start with about 10 large sheets of paper and in the course of the show make them into props and puppets. Now normally my go-to advice on any flammable material onstage is to flamecheck it, but it feels a bit excessive here, and there's also a concern it'll change the characteristics of the paper, which may affect the show itself. Does anyone have any similar experience? Any advice? It's an Edinburgh Fringe show, just to add that into the mix.

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

I sometimes think that many of us (and I include myself in this - occasionally) do perhaps go too far when specifying what's permissible on stage in these situations.

 

That said I've occasionally 'passed' items for one show that would have been kicked into touch on others.

 

The basic response really should come down as always to the RA.

 

What is the risk of this paper being in a position to catch light?

If there are naked flames involved at ANY time during the show, or pyrotechnics of any kind, or if there are regular lighting instruments anywhere near the act (eg at ground level or close) or at a push are there any focussable lanterns in the grid which might create excessive heat (think PAR cans on a low height grid, maybe) then you have to stop and reassess the risks.

But if the answer is no to all the above and more, then maybe you don't need to worry. As long as you do the assessment and mitigate the risks etc.

 

Always remember that for fire to be created you need the triangle of fuel, oxygen and ignition. In this case you can't get rid of the first two, but you should in theory be able to guard well against the third.

 

As for fire-retarding paper, that will be next to impossible without destroying the properties of the material for the 'tricks'.

I did once hear of the availability of pre-treated paper but as I recall it was prohibitively expensive...

 

(Oh - and as usual, note that we seldom actually refer to the process as fire proofing as that's nigh on impossible, too - it is fire retardency that's the key, along with the ability of any source material to self-extinguish after the point of ignition is removed).

[gnomatron]

ah yes, appreciate the distinction regarding fire 'proofing' as opposed to 'retardancy'. Must remember that.

 

Now the other side of the question... what have council fire officers said about it? Come to think of it, a friend of mine uses flipcharts extensively onstage; there's no way she flamechecks them, it would ruin them. So, probably alright with an appropriate RA and sensible control measures.

[Ynot]

Councils don't have fire officers.

The county councils run the fire service (think that's still true) so I suppose in some ways when they used to visit and assess in the past they might have been judged as working for the council, but only in a sense that the county paid their wages. But all that stopped years ago.

 

 

The responsibility for ALL fire safety precautions these days lies with the VENUE. The fire service will advise, and sign off on the venue policy, but won't dictate.

If the venue H & S rep or designated responsible adult is happy with your RA then you should be good to go.

[Dave m]

I don't suppose that it is the paper bag players is it? I worked with them about 35 years ago!

[w/robe]

Props and costumes are not normally flameproofed as, apart from anything else, some people have a nasty reaction to Flambar etc.

[Jivemaster]

Lots of things are impossible to fireproof (yes Proof!) Some things are hard to make fire resistant or retardant, ultimately it's your call as to the amount of fireable material on stage and the precautions for it that you need. Being sure that you know where the fire extinguishers are and how to use them is good. Having an extra person with a suitable spare extinguisher in hand, in the wings means that the unlikely can have it's hazard minimised even if the risk is high -no-one's going to get hurt because the flames were put out in seconds.

 

If they NEED ten sheets then ten sheets are available the rest is put away safely.

[gnomatron]

The county councils run the fire service (think that's still true) so I suppose in some ways when they used to visit and assess in the past they might have been judged as working for the council, but only in a sense that the county paid their wages. But all that stopped years ago...... If the venue H & S rep or designated responsible adult is happy with your RA then you should be good to go.

 

You're right, it's the fire service rather than the council. Certainly in Edinburgh the fire service will visit in relation to a theatre license application, and if they're not happy with your RA they can deny the license and effectively shut down your venue.

[paulears]

You self-certificate, and they randomly check and advise. Also, things change. Our pier had dry risers and hose reels for years and then the fire service said they were unnecessary, and they were capped off. Then ten years later, they are now all refurbished and the system back in use. The old system was to let piers burn, just save the people, now having squirty water available is now seen as better.

 

We now have plenty of potentially risky components to shows, pyros, flame devices, fire eaters, flaming batons, flameaux torches. All can be made acceptable with a bit of effort and planning.

[Brian]

Councils don't have fire officers. The county councils run the fire service (think that's still true)...

 

It all depends where you are.

 

North of the border is very different to South of it. Down South, in some areas it's down to the County Council; in some the CC have handed the powers to the fire service, and in some 'Metropolitan' areas it's been directly with the fire service since the re-organisation.

[kerry davies]

Since the Regulatory Reform Act got rid of fire certification the onus has been on venue owners/managers/occupiers, here be a guide!

 

Scotland should, in theory, be no different. Here be another guide! Both state that the onus is on the venue, unfortunately that isn't how it sometimes pans out.

 

There have been major problems with enforcement and BIS held a review in 2012/13 that found various difficulties in various fire authorities. No FPO standards, no training, no understanding of the enforcement role, no budget for audit and inspection, temporary posts, insufficient consultation due to liability fears and FPOs pursuing "the unobtainable goal of zero risk" etc etc etc. The problem then became that of the government who needed to fund all this remedial work. They didn't, they ignored it and cut funding even further.

 

Back when Ynot and I used to deal with the wonderfully named Blaize Marshall of Warks Fire and Rescue we could get straight answers to straight questions. Today it really is down to where you are and who has been forced into the role of FPO.

 

The OP should create his RA in collaboration with the visiting company who will almost certainly have an existing one he can pinch. Always bearing in mind that it is about risk management not the unobtainable goal of zero risk, in the government's own words.

[gnomatron]

cheers for the advice folks, much appreciated!