pete LD Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hi all, Whilst touring the theatres of the UK I have now twice come across two new build venues that have ethercon on all there utility panels in place of DMX. To me this seems to over complicate things. If you wanted to put a hazer for instance on the floor USL and control it via DMX then you need to plug a node in to make this possible. Is it not a step backwards to have to do that? I see no benefit to adding an extra bit of kit that may cost more than the hazer to make it work? As well as the node you then need a short bit of cat 5, a bit of 5 pin XLR to get to the hazer from the node as well as mains for the node its self. Then you may still have to go and patch the cat5 in a network switch anyway ! Both venues were sub 500 seats and unlikely to ever be pushing the limits of the 2 universes that there IONs provide without nodes! The one I toured into last week had no input node so I couldn't control the house dimmers from my desk via DMX, I had to use ACN which is just a bit fafy!! So is there a point to having this as a solution? Am I missing it? It seems like The installers (stage LX on both occasions) have decided that DMX is no longer relevant!! I would just like others thoughts. does your venue have this system? If so is is useful?? Thanks, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Well it depends where the other end of the ethercon is - if you have access to both ends you can just run normal DMX over it using a simple adaptor cable. And you can use it for ethernet too. So I guess they are building in future proofing. On the other hand if it's permanently patched into a network switch in a room you can't get into then it is less useful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete LD Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 On the other hand if it's permanently patched into a network switch in a room you can't get into then it is less useful... that was my thought, But in both cases the desk goes via cat 5 in to one of the 12!! eathercon points in the control room, then off to a patch bay in the dimmer room, then patched off round the venue. I would understand it if there was a node and a DMX split in the dimmer room and some converters from XLR to cat 5 but there is not, nor is there any spare rack space so it would be an add on bodge! (One that I would be doing if it were my venue!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Maybe the client asked for it to be that way and SLX just installed as per their instructions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jevans Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 In my normal haunt all data install cabling (by LSI circa 2001-02) is on CAT5, so serial, DMX, 520i riggers remote, slide projector remote, Crestron control sockets were all run on it. Now we no longer use a 520, a Crestron, slide projectors or anything on serial we slowly converted all of these to Ethercon lines, helped by the fact that LSI, seeing far enough ahead that CAT5 would be the norm, actually terminated the CAT5 cables to a CAT5 standard plug at each end inside the patch bays, then a CAT5-whatever adaptor attached to the front of the panel, so all we had to do was swap them for ethernet passthroughs. Hey, presto, instant CAT5 network. One new patchbay later and we have about 30 CAT5 tielines for almost no work (we then did lay in some extra CAT6 lines to the stage area, partly planned for a digital sound desk that hasn't appeared just yet...) However we did keep almost all of the DMX lines as DMX; a couple of the ones we never used we converted to Ethercon and we flipped the gender of a couple of them. Similarly the idea was brought up of converting the lot to Ethercon and having a pile of short Ethercon-DMX adaptor cables; I was strongly against it because of the extra confusion factor, particually in what is mainly a student venue, even if it made the system a lot more flexible. I also thought that there were enough things on the CAT5 patch that could cause problems if crossplugged, there's already networking, video over CAT5 and KVM present on the same patchbay: the KVM and video boxes put power on the line and I don't think we want to find out what happens if that gets plugged into the DMX output of the Ion, or indeed the network port of the Mac Mini... We eventually decided it was best not to although we did make some Ethercon-DMX adaptors in the end just in case, and put them apart from the DMX cabling! I think if you could always assume that venue staff would do the patching you might be okay with doing DMX over CAT5, but if there's even the slightest bit of doubt it's going to really confuse someone later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I just had Ethercon installed through my building (alongside the existing DMX install). What you have to remember is that Ethernet can be lighting data, computer data, audio, video... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Our place has ether on from performance space to control space alongside the standard patches but self contained.The control spaces also have ethercon connections to the other spaces and to the web so that they are as multiuse as we could do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oovis Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 We've been Cat5e with Ethercon since our refit in 2005 with no issues. Squirting DMX down a cable is easy with adapters at each and and desks can talk to backups and processors via Ethercon. The logic for updated cabling is sound but it seems someone possibly forgot or misplaced some useful bits to integrate an exernal user's equipment to their system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Also worth remembering that you can get 4 lines of DMX down a single CAT 5 cable if you knock up some adapters similar to this Sneak Snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 4 lines down cat 5? Surely that would mean there is no ground reference, which would be a very bad thing for reliable DMX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The 4 universe option requires STP, otherwise UTP is apparently good for 3 universes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The 4 universe option requires STPApologies I should have added that caveat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete LD Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I do see the point of having a good ethercon patch around the building. But in both cases I'm thinking of the venue do have loose nodes to plug in to generate DMX where ever you need it. Its this side of it I see as a bit pointless and adding extra things you don't need! I can see the point in having a good election of cat 5> 5pin adaptors. That would make it useable apart from both venues had no way of getting DMX in to the patch lines as the plan was always to have a node next to the kit and not in the patch bay! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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