Tom Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hello all - some help please. (I'm not a sound person so apologies for poor terminology) For a project, we need to mute (or possibly just fade) four separate inputs at the same time to allow a mic to talk over all four. It's not for a conventional show, more a sort of interactive installation type thing. Let me explain... Mac Mini with a sound card playing four separate sounds to four separate speakers, possibly using QLab but possibly using custom written program. The different sounds are triggered directly by the actions of the audience / participants. At some moments, though, the performer/operator needs to be able to talk via mic over all the outputs simultaneously.So I'm looking at a way of muting or fading down the sound effects while the mic is in use. [just for added background, the computer is doing more than just running sound - it is running some custom software which the participants interact with causing many things to happen, one being sounds to play] Thinking it's post sound card - maybe a small mixer with the mic routed to all four outputs and the individual outputs from the sound card just going straight through. But ideally there would be a single control to fade down or mute the effects. The performer/operator could do this, but it would have to be simple to do. Alternatively was wondering about a DJ type automatic cut out when the mic is live / in use. But is there such a thing that will control 4 separate inputs / outputs? Oh - and what ever it is it needs to be small (or at least it's control end does) as it has to be built into a display area. Feels like a custom built box of tricks - but of course there's a budget. Or, is there a way to solve this at the computer end? At present we have limited interface with the computer; bar code scanners to trigger the effects and some custom built 4 button boxes for the operator. But maybe this could be added. And I need to repeat this four times. So - any thoughts on how to skin this? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I would be looking at a compressor inserted in each of the 4 music channels and its its sidechain triggered by the mic signal. Alternatively, find an automixer that will do a similar job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 cheap and dirty way is a 4 pole dpdt switch,commons to the speakers,one side of the switch to computer and the other sides commoned together to the mic source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Zone mixer with paging mic with auto ducking on audio when paging mic in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 what sort of speakers - are we talking small hifi style speakers, or 100V, or kilowatts of PA? Are the amps co-located, or distributed?Was thinking that if each speaker system/chain was driven by a small amp that has a ducking input... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Something like a Cloud Z4 would do this automatically, 6 music inputs, 4 zone outputs, so set Zone1 to Input1, 2 to 2... and 3x mic ins with auto ducking on each over the line sources.Pricey unless you could find a bargain used one. Couple of questions- If this was QLab, do the sounds need to re-start once the mic has stopped, or would the sounds be short enough just to kill them. Would 'Panicl' cue on QLab (fades all running cues) or a fade all for the custom software work? Alternatively, something like a set of pad resistors on each sound card output, with switches or relays to pad in and out, and control from something remote? wireless button? There are probably ways to duck in Qlab too, possibly grouping cues for each speaker into a folder, and applying a relative fade to the folder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Zone mixer with paging mic with auto ducking on audio when paging mic in use.Thats the right answer. But OP left out the most important item, and a supplementary. The most important item is budget, and the second is duration. Zone mixers for four zones with four music inputs aren't terribly common, but Cloud do such beasts, and they also do a four zone mixer-amp tha would be a one box solution, the 46-50 is 50W/channel is enough for the job in hand, or there is a 120W version also. I've had one of these for my home background music system, and it was second hand when I got it over a decade ago, and its never dropped a beat. If the job is a shortie, then hire a DSP box (soundweb, symmetrix, all the usual suspects) and knock up a suitable zone mixer in that. Might be hard to find a suitable Cloud box, as they are install components, so not a huge demand for hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 It could also be done with a digital mixer with DCAs. Mackie DL806 springs to mind, assign one DCA to the sfx and another to the voice channel then fade the sfx down when talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for the responses - much of which I don't understand so go please bear with me.I would be looking at a compressor inserted in each of the 4 music channels and its its sidechain triggered by the mic signal. Alternatively, find an automixer that will do a similar job?Sounds simple - how do I go about achieving this though. Is that an off the shelf box or something that needs making up? what sort of speakers - are we talking small hifi style speakers, or 100V, or kilowatts of PA? Are the amps co-located, or distributed?Was thinking that if each speaker system/chain was driven by a small amp that has a ducking input...We're talking small speakers - Control 1 type things (or similar). Or maybe 100V. They only need to play to a small group of people sat at a table. (They may be mounted in the table or hopefully over the table).Everything is very local. 4 tables with operator standing in middle (effectively - it's actually a bit more complicated). Couple of questions- If this was QLab, do the sounds need to re-start once the mic has stopped, or would the sounds be short enough just to kill them. Would 'Panicl' cue on QLab (fades all running cues) or a fade all for the custom software work? Alternatively, something like a set of pad resistors on each sound card output, with switches or relays to pad in and out, and control from something remote? wireless button? There are probably ways to duck in Qlab too, possibly grouping cues for each speaker into a folder, and applying a relative fade to the folder?I'm not sure if we mind if the sounds are stopped or just fade and return. Need to double check that but I think we can be flexible for the right solution.I'll get my Q-Lab / Software person person to look at that option as it sounds simple and would just require an additional button on our custom button box. What is a Pad Resistor? Again, how would that be achieved? Zone mixer with paging mic with auto ducking on audio when paging mic in use.Thats the right answer. But OP left out the most important item, and a supplementary. The most important item is budget, and the second is duration. Zone mixers for four zones with four music inputs aren't terribly common, but Cloud do such beasts, and they also do a four zone mixer-amp tha would be a one box solution, the 46-50 is 50W/channel is enough for the job in hand, or there is a 120W version also. I've had one of these for my home background music system, and it was second hand when I got it over a decade ago, and its never dropped a beat. If the job is a shortie, then hire a DSP box (soundweb, symmetrix, all the usual suspects) and knock up a suitable zone mixer in that. Might be hard to find a suitable Cloud box, as they are install components, so not a huge demand for hire.Budget - a few hundred I guess. Still balancing desire / feasibility / cost across the project. Duration - short term (a couple of months inc rehearsal time) but with a hoped for future life. The Cloud 45-50 looks perfect but comes in at £750 and as I said I need 4 systems so unfortunately a no goer. There are a few on Ebay between £200 and £300 but even that is more than we have for this. Sorry - what is a DSP box please? I did google the suppliers you suggest but didn't get very far. Thanks again all. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Never used one, but this Swissonic ZM4 looks like it's made for you, apart from possibly being a bit big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesperrett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Cloud 45-50 looks perfect but comes in at £750 and as I said I need 4 systems so unfortunately a no goer. The Cloud box already has 4 separate output channels so you only need one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ........... And I need to repeat this four times. I'm reading this as 4 lots of 4 so 16 in all. But I could be wrong..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I need four completely separate systems, each capable of doing what I'm describing. The Swissonic does look good and much closer on price. Anybody any experience of these? I'm not quite clear if it will do what I want. The manual is singularly unhelpful. Am I reading it right that if "Chan 1 has priority over Ch 2-5", a mic feed into Ch1, routed to all 4 outputs, will override them. Sounds right when say it like that but the manual doesn't actually say that. Also no info about how it does this. How much breathing space does it allow? Will need amps as well, but I think we already have a couple of 4 way amps so half way there. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sticking one of the user reviews into Google Translate seems to indicate that it can either auto duck or use a switch to the contact on the back to mute 2 -5. It seems there's a jumper inside the unit to select this, which the manual does not mention at all. <_< I actually think you could probably use a very simple midi control with QLab, but I've not worked out exactly how... I've not got anything planned for this evening so I may have a play later..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Much appreciated if you did Mark. The only input the operator will have to the computer will be a custom built button box which I think emultates a keyboard. My concern about the Panic cue in QLab is that while it fades all running cues it doesn't stop another cue from firing (if an audience member scans a barcode during the announcement for example). But this might be something we live with as unlikely. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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