Is this school Dimmer DMX, multiplex of something else?

[JAAMM]

Hi again,

 

Here are a few pictures of the lighting setup at my school.

I tried googling but can't find it :(

Does anyone know if this dimmer is DMX compatible, and therefore can be controlled via Magic Q?

 

It looks really old do I doubt it TBH. I think that the connectors on the dimmer @ controller are XLR, but I haven't been able to check due to the floor being cleaned ATM :/

 

I think this is the dimmer:

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/1.JPG

 

These are the controlers (The black one is the oldest and not connected):

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/2.JPG

 

This is the one that works: (I think its a XLR in & out (no extra power source):

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/3.JPG

 

The old board:

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/7.JPG

 

The lights:

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/4.JPG

 

Lights in the fly tower:

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/6.JPG

 

A large box on the side of the stage (next to the snake), don't know wether it actually has anything to do with the lights (not sure what it is, as pics were taken a while back and can't get in to look ATM sorry)...

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/5.JPG

 

Sorry about all the images, just trying to be as explanatory as posible. Thanks Allot :)

[themadhippy]

This is the one that works: (I think its a XLR in & out (no extra power source):

My guess its anolouge,if theres 2 connectors and no power then each conector is 6 channels of control plus a supply to power the desk

[Brian]

My gut feeling is 'no' it's not DMX. The reason is that the Zero 88 desk appears to have two din connectors connected; these would be 6 ways of analogue control on each one.

 

The quickest way to get it to work DMX is to buy the Zero88 demux that is on eBay at the mo'.

[JAAMM]

Thanks :)

 

I was worried they were din connectors, but haven't been able to check...

 

I've searched Zero88 demux on eBay but no results, could you possible give a link, I'd really appreciate it :)

 

Do you think the other large black box on the wall is anything to do with the lights?

 

Thanks :D

[paulears]

It looks like an old Furse rack, so with the Apollo JFR rack, you probably have two sets, no idea why? I'm not familiar with the Apollo - but 12 fuses and a breaker match the 12 channel analogue control. It looks like 18 channels for the Furse one - 3 x 6 channel racks.

[Daveman]

I think this is the dimmer:

http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/1.JPG

 

 

DMX or analogue, it probably shouldn't have coke cans left on top of it...

[ojc123]

Can't contribute to the original question beyond anything already posted. My first thought was whether there was something to stop either or both desks falling from that ledge? I assume there is.

[JAAMM]

It looks like an old Furse rack, so with the Apollo JFR rack, you probably have two sets, no idea why? I'm not familiar with the Apollo - but 12 fuses and a breaker match the 12 channel analogue control. It looks like 18 channels for the Furse one - 3 x 6 channel racks.

 

Thanks,

Do you think that that the 12 channel one is to the internally wired bars in the main hall, then the 18 channel one one the stage is for those light bar things over the stage? There is actually a din faceplate next to the black dimmer and another one in the box, so could be connected together and used to be connected to the black controller?

 

PS - The coke cans (and the broken sliders) were there before I took over! Now gone though :)

 

Can't contribute to the original question beyond anything already posted. My first thought was whether there was something to stop either or both desks falling from that ledge? I assume there is.

 

Nope! There is nothing & it worries me too. The only thing that's really stopping them from falling is there 'feet' are spaced so that they are 'slotted' onto the ledge, not too safe though :/

[indyld]

Looking at the first picture it struck me, aren't Apollo a name in fire and security systems? It doesn't look like a dimmer that I've ever seen and I couldn't work out if the round buttons shapes were fuses or neons (that might indicate zones etc)

 

The "black box" does look like a Furse dimmer that would presumably have been installed with the original controller. Of course, why wouldn't you install an audio snake right next to the dimmer...? :-)

 

However, though a Zero88 12ch desk is obviously in use next to the old controller, that doesn't mean that the black box is the current dimmer. There could conceivably be 2 slightly more modern 6 channel dimmers hidden in a cupboard somewhere. As other have suggested, it looks like 2 x DIN connectors and the absence of a power supply would confirm that it's running an analogue system and not DMX (see caveat about the possibility that the actual dimmers are as yet undiscovered and may be, however unlikely)

 

I love the MagicQ but I'm not sure even the feature set that Cham Sys have in the pipeline includes a "Make some decent light squirt outta these rusty ol tins" setting. Unfortunately, even DMX control can't make those things any nicer.

 

Edit to add:// Speaking of ol tins, is that the same coke can in all the pics? Trying to make a name for itself I presume...

[paulears]

I don't think we can guess? However, I suspect that you'll find the two systems were installed over the top of each other - so assuming there's no patch panel somewhere, then you'll have out front and over stage circuits from both. When the second one was put in, they could have re-wired to split the controls, but if there is no socket numbering, then you have a number of potential problems. Hopefully, if both those controls actually work, and all the dimmer channels are functional, then you're just going to have to plug something into every socket one at a time and work out where they go. I'd check the fuses on a meter first, and replace any failed ones. Your first question about using magicQ seems a bit doomed without spending money - but if you haven't got huge numbers of lanterns, there's no real problem using two desks - quite common not too many years ago.

[JAAMM]

Looking at the first picture it struck me, aren't Apollo a name in fire and security systems? It doesn't look like a dimmer that I've ever seen and I couldn't work out if the round buttons shapes were fuses or neons (that might indicate zones etc)

 

The "black box" does look like a Furse dimmer that would presumably have been installed with the original controller. Of course, why wouldn't you install an audio snake right next to the dimmer...? :-)

 

However, though a Zero88 12ch desk is obviously in use next to the old controller, that doesn't mean that the black box is the current dimmer. There could conceivably be 2 slightly more modern 6 channel dimmers hidden in a cupboard somewhere. As other have suggested, it looks like 2 x DIN connectors and the absence of a power supply would confirm that it's running an analogue system and not DMX (see caveat about the possibility that the actual dimmers are as yet undiscovered and may be, however unlikely)

 

I love the MagicQ but I'm not sure even the feature set that Cham Sys have in the pipeline includes a "Make some decent light squirt outta these rusty ol tins" setting. Unfortunately, even DMX control can't make those things any nicer.

 

Hi, I think they are fuses.

The audio system in the hall is quite new (only a few years, shame they didn't get the lights updated at the same time!) Its in the east wing, so I gues they thought it was a convening place, what with plug sockets beneath (is there something wrong with that like interference?

 

I really don't think there are any hidden dimmers, I had a good poke around and followed the conduit all around!

 

PS - Yep, I moved it around (saved sourcing multiple cans ;) Not really, they're different :P

[Adam L F]

Heya JAAMM,

 

Your fears are correct those desks are indeed not DMX compatible (from memory), but if your school do end up investing or somehow acquiring a console which does indeed output DMX then you could invest or hire a demux. Your theory about the IWB's could be correct, there's one way to find out! Just don't play with things you don't understand...it could end up being a shocking experience.

 

 

[JAAMM]

I don't think we can guess? However, I suspect that you'll find the two systems were installed over the top of each other - so assuming there's no patch panel somewhere, then you'll have out front and over stage circuits from both. When the second one was put in, they could have re-wired to split the controls, but if there is no socket numbering, then you have a number of potential problems. Hopefully, if both those controls actually work, and all the dimmer channels are functional, then you're just going to have to plug something into every socket one at a time and work out where they go. I'd check the fuses on a meter first, and replace any failed ones. Your first question about using magicQ seems a bit doomed without spending money - but if you haven't got huge numbers of lanterns, there's no real problem using two desks - quite common not too many years ago.

 

I think this is the case, I turned the 12 channel one on and moved some sliders and the front of stage ones worked (a bit randomly connected!) but nothing over the stage, so I guess that's why, I just assumed they were not patched or all the bulbs had gone! Also, the over stage light bar things are wired in and cant be unplugged :/

 

The reason I wanted to use magic Q was for the annual talent show, normally they just have a couple of people pushing sliders up and down real time. Were going to use some scanners this year though (6 of them) and LED cans (8 of them) and I am gonna program them in with magic Q and would liked to have had control over the main lights as well.

 

I guess the best/cheapest way to achieve that would be to get some dimmer packs and plug the exiting lights into them and not use the dimmers pictured at all. Would have to take those bar things down over the stage as well to make room to hang cans (do you know that those bars lights are called?)?

 

Thanks Allot :)

[J Pearce]

Hiring a demux that will convert DMX into the analogue control signal that your little desk kicks out should be cheaper than hiring dimmers. It will also save time! You could buy one for around £100.

[pritch]

Hiring a demux that will convert DMX into the analogue control signal that your little desk kicks out should be cheaper than hiring dimmers. It will also save time! You could buy one for around £100.

 

...although there's no guarantee that the leads the hire company supply will necessarily suit whatever connection pinout the dimmers are using, so the OP may have to get busy with the soldering iron to make their own leads up.