JAAMM Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 ..You say the 'S' battens are being removed and you're replacing them with LED cans and your scanners. Do you have a student-friendly power supply for them? The battens would be dimmed but kit you're proposing needs switched mains. The electrician is installing 1 socket per bar so we can plug them in (he will put the switches for the sockets on the wall below. I will ask for 15A sockets to solve the blowing fuse problem, I assume he'll fuse them at 10A further down the line... Sorry, but that is a very bad idea. 15A sockets should only be used on dimmer circuits and hard power should be on either 13A d0m3st1c or 16A industrial sockets. Then nobody can confuse the two circuit types. Also, never assume anything. If you want the electrician to provide 10A circuit breaker on a spur circuit, put it in the specification. Fair point, we'll stick to 13A. But it wouldn't really do any damage if a lantern with a 15A on it was plugged in, I could understand the other way around with 13A on dimmer circuits. Thanks The new plan is anyone's interested... http://tomlinson-net.org/james/school-lights/plan/new/new/1.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 JAAMM, can I ask how old you are?I can understand your enthusiasm towards this event and I believe it's very doable and your plans do look viable. However, I'm more concerned about the fact that you being a young man, you'll eventually be finishing at your school one day. When you leave, what happens to the equipment? Who will own it? Who will look after it? Who will teach future years how to use everything? Will there be a infrastructure to carry out any maintenance to any fixtures that get damaged or that need parts? You should really consider hiring for your events, especially if its for an annual event. You will be able to use top range equipment and accessories at very reasonable prices and you can get great advice from the people who rent out their equipment week in, week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAAMM Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 JAAMM, can I ask how old you are?I can understand your enthusiasm towards this event and I believe it's very doable and your plans do look viable. However, I'm more concerned about the fact that you being a young man, you'll eventually be finishing at your school one day. When you leave, what happens to the equipment? Who will own it? Who will look after it? Who will teach future years how to use everything? Will there be a infrastructure to carry out any maintenance to any fixtures that get damaged or that need parts? You should really consider hiring for your events, especially if its for an annual event. You will be able to use top range equipment and accessories at very reasonable prices and you can get great advice from the people who rent out their equipment week in, week out. I understand what you mean, yeah I know that. I have a friend in the year below me who understands it, so that's that for another yeah. Also there are some years 10/11's who are eager to learn. Also, they have some LED cans & control desk in drama (I'm going to use the same desk for this because the drama teacher know how to use it & some of the pupils). I'll put a simple instruction leaflet together with pictures as well. We used to hire stuff every year but decided this would be better now.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musht Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 ..You say the 'S' battens are being removed and you're replacing them with LED cans and your scanners. Do you have a student-friendly power supply for them? The battens would be dimmed but kit you're proposing needs switched mains. The electrician is installing 1 socket per bar so we can plug them in (he will put the switches for the sockets on the wall below. I will ask for 15A sockets to solve the blowing fuse problem, I assume he'll fuse them at 10A further down the line... Sorry, but that is a very bad idea. 15A sockets should only be used on dimmer circuits and hard power should be on either 13A d0m3st1c or 16A industrial sockets. Then nobody can confuse the two circuit types. Also, never assume anything. If you want the electrician to provide 10A circuit breaker on a spur circuit, put it in the specification. Fair point, we'll stick to 13A. But it wouldn't really do any damage if a lantern with a 15A on it was plugged in, I could understand the other way around with 13A on dimmer circuits. Thanks The new plan is anyone's interested... Certainly agree with never assume anything, if it`s not on the spec don`t think it will suddenly appear. Problem with a pile of LED cans on 13A extensions is possibility of multiple fuse failure, a cable fault etc.. takes fuse closest to it and possiblly others down the line, making fault finding and rectification a pain. Dont see a problem with CLEARLY LABELLED 15A sockets up by the over stage bars, possibly wired back to a small consumer unit with breaker per socket,again LABEL EVERYTHING. Would also consider a DMX splitter, otherwise have DMX run having to hop from one bar to another, any break and you lose a lot of lights, perhaps it could live in a cupboard beside the socket breaker panel, did I say LABEL EVERYTHING ;-) Make diagrams of everything and how it is laid out and how it is labelled , print a copy and paste in on the wall beside the breaker panels, scan a copy and get it a home on the schools server, put one in a time capsule and bury it in the hall`s walls, OK, mebbe not the last one but you get the idea. Don`t quite get the intention of the two profiles at the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm just going to go back to much earlier in the thread... As has been suggested earlier the black box is a Furse dimmer running on its own protocol FMX. The conversion cards to DMX are still made by someone who used to work for CCT and can be bought direct from Lancelyn (they arrive in a jiffy bag and are manufactured to order). We got a price 2yrs ago for just the card (around £350) and for card and install and some commissioning (about £1200). I opted to do it myself (but I'm not a student). A good session with a hoover and a paint brush to get rid of the accumulated dirt in the dimmer and we had a very serviceable 24 way DMX dimmer unit. It had been working well for 25yrs, without a single fault (that anyone could remember) and would go on for quite some time yet I suspect. It's only being replaced this summer as part of a project to replace the whole AV infrastructure in the hall (5x 24way Chilli racks going in). The reason I bring this back up is that this may be a better way to spend £1500 of school funds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musht Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 As far as can understand, fly paddling in that ointment is OP`s current Furse dimmers are hardwired to s-battens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oovis Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 As far as can understand, fly paddling in that ointment is OP`s current Furse dimmers are hardwired to s-battens.Although in post #52 he said the battens are being removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well, until they discover how expensive that is going to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin D Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think we are 'assuming' they are hard wired as the OP has not been able to find a patch. Not sure that has been positively verified! :unsure: In the similar install I referred to earlier, the patch was hidden in a store cupboard only accessible from the first floor corridor that ran along the back of the hall. I found it by spotting that all the conduits ran through the upstage wall above the grid and despite having been reassured several times that there was no way of patching things. It didn't make sense as there were more outlets FOH than available dimmer channels let alone those on the main grid. So to change the patching on anything it was a trip through SL wing, down half a dozen stairs, along the corridor, turn left, up the stairs, along the corridor and into the cupboard. Usefully someone had used black marker to write across the labels really useful things like 'rear red', 'stage spot' etc and in doing so, obliterating the original numbering that originally matched that on the outlets above the grid! As there were 48(?) patch points it took a few hours to relabel correctly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'll put a simple instruction leaflet together with pictures as well. Having been a school lighting/sound/IT tech, I can say that if you put the work into it and produce a useful, detailed, INDEXED, manual for your school's setup, you could submit this with the work for your course, in order to demonstrate a more advanced knowledge than most students of your age. It is also one of the best ways to learn a lot more about the equipment in your venue, and why it is set up the way it is. However, double-check it all for the appropriate terms, (eg; "sliders" vs "faders"), and make sure it is all 100% fact - don't be tempted to put what you THINK it might be. Try and write it as if you were setting it up from the very beginning, ie; avoid "these five channels don't work", and write it objectively, ie; do not use the pronouns, "I", "me", "we". Include diagrams of each bar, the socket numbering, etc. At a guess, the manual would be about 8-15 pages long. I had to do something similar for the sound system in the venue I worked at, when I worked at a UK holiday resort. Think, "If somebody who is completely unfamiliar with the venue comes along, could they read this and just get on with it?" I'm sure some of the gurus on here will help you check it for terminology, but only you will know the layout and specifics about your venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAAMM Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Hello everyone! Sorry about dredging an old (year) post up but thought some may be interested in the result and outcome, many people on here never seem to reply after they get the information they need. We went ahead with the project, and its turned out rather well. We removed the old furse floods over the stage area and replaced them with 10 tr-led par cans and a few normal LED 64's which are plugged into newly installed (by the electrical) 16A socket on each bar. These provide a great colour wash and can also do some great flashing! Also the 16A sockets allows the smaller movers and scanners to be added easily for the odd show if required. The old fresnels were removed and replaced with par 64's and fresnels and a 4 profiles. The old Zero 88 dimmer is connect to a zero 88 demux and everything is controlled from a 48 channel desk. We spent about £3000 including electricians costs, so a bit over budget but never the less worth it and not bad IMO for the amount of equipment we got. Apart from the electrical work (adding the sockets) we did the rest ourselves (putting the new lights up ext) and using the advice from this forum I choose what I thought we should buy and where it should go ext... We've done 5 shows since and technically have all ran fine and the teacher is very pleased. I really am grateful for the advice I've received which along with some trial and error work I am more knowledgeable in this field so thanks alot! I also wanted so show not all student technical types are completely hopeless as some people on here assume, from reading other post in the Next Gen area.I look forward you anyone's opinion/suggestions on this :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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