What's the best way to get work & experience in the west-end?

[Aaron-Hill07]

Morning Ladies & Gents,

 

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently about the direction of work I'm looking to go in. I'm quite well experienced in Live Events, and also have a good amount of experience working in Theatre specifically with Lighting Design + Operating etc. I've been working in the industry for about two years, professionally for maybe 18 months and have gained a good amount of experienced and built up quite an inventory of skills and techniques which I use and build on, every show.

 

I initially came across as the usual 'Young and Naive' 'Thinks he's the best' guy when I first joined the forum a few years ago and I completely agree I was exactly that so it's been a long spiralling road to get me to this point where actually I know I'm a drop in the ocean in comparison to some of the guys on this forum. But one thing I do know, is that I am very passionate about theatre and concerts, mainly lighting + stage management. As I say, I do have a lot of experience for someone of my age and have been given a lot of responsibility in the past by other companies/theatres which has enabled me to learn and teach myself new skills aswell as picking things up from others and from the forums such as Blue-Room.

 

I've always loved theatre, and have worked in a lot of am-dram theatres and worked on various theatrical productions however I'm now looking for a bit of a jump-up into some west-end theatres on some of those productions. I'd be looking for follow-spot/lighting op/crew/ASM etc. type work, so not anything that's massively relying on years and years of experience and skill.

 

I've done the usual looking on production websites such as Really Useful, Cameron Mackintosh etc etc. but I'm assuming they only usually advertise the main jobs such as your Manager's/Charge-hand's etc. I've also got my eye out on Stagejobspro and The Stage. I'm wondering what the best way is to get into the west-end to get experience followspotting etc? Some people have said to phone round the Stage Doors and leave details and have a chat with someone but I'm not convinced that's the best way?

 

 

I know there will be lots of people on this forum who either do or have worked in the west-end in the past and may have been in the same situation as me, so any help would definitely be great.

 

Thanks in advance,

Aaron Hill

[Bobbsy]

Well, a few thoughts.

 

First off, as I believe you're still a bit under 18, I'd guess it's unlikely that any West End theatres would be willing to consider you until you're "of age" and the usual issues with insurance etc. drop off the radar.

 

Second, you need to remember that, in theatre terms, the West End is generally considered to top rung of the industry so they get to pick and choose who they hire.

 

However, a young lady I know has, in the last six months or so, started getting shifts on follow spot at several West End theatres so I can tell you how she managed it. Basically, she started off in her early teens doing tech stuff with various youth theatre groups and Amdram societies. That's how I met her--I was trustee and technical advisor to the youth drama group she worked with (we had charitable status, hence my trustee position). She decided she was very interested in technical theatre so, after completing her A-levels she did a degree level course in theatre which she completed about 18 months ago. While in university and especially since graduation, she's sent to CV to regional theatres all over the UK and picked up shifts in places as far apart as Edinburgh and Portsmouth. This has given her quite a few professional level productions on her CV and, almost as important, she's made a lot of industry contacts. I believe her first West End gig came as a result of somebody she'd met in Edinburgh tipping her off about a job--and putting in a good word for her.

 

Obviously there are an infinite number of variations on how to get into the industry--but most of them involve a bit of a slog and a lot of "right place, right time" good luck.

 

Bob

[paulears]

If you were/are the person who is in the job that requires getting extra crew members in, then you'll have the list of people to phone. However, when you get to the bottom of your list and still haven't found anyone then you use other people's recommendations. If that is still not working, then is the time to look at the unknown people whose names appear on CVs sent in at random. Very often, it at that late stage comes down to who can get there quickest. These kind of things if they happen well in advance, get sorted well in advance - so somebody 50mile+ away isn't likely to get a panic call. So most of the jobs go to the managers list, then to his/her trusted colleagues. Like Bob says, this is how people get the call. "Hi Bob, I've been let down at the last minute, do you know anyone.........."

 

More than that is simply good luck. We're a bit short of the normal crew here, but although there are now plenty of new faces covering while people have to take their annual leave, I recognise every one from some point in the past four years - they just are a bit further down the list.

 

From what I know, the West End also can 'steal' from each others spares list of they get stuck - most shows helping out their counterparts. This again limits new people.

[Aaron-Hill07]

Thanks a lot for those pointers so far, most helpful. Unfortunately as the majority of my experience is in Live Events, I've got a load of contacts in that sector of the industry but professional theatre isn't something I've had loads of experience with so working off contacts is going to be quite difficult for that which is a bit of a bummer.

 

I think I may give a few of the theatres a call, have a chat with the 'powers that be' for this type of thing. A casual conversation about possible opportunities can't harm can it?

[Ynot]

The usual caveat applies here.

When looking at potential employers DO NOT big yourself up as an entrepreneurial whizz kid with your own production company with 'years of experience' because regardless of what you might think, that is highly unlikely to be worth spit out in the real adult working world, and even less in a West End theatre...

[Jivemaster]

To get the jobs you NEED the experience first, also to get your first big job you will need to be available at only as much notice as your travel time to get there. As above, crew bookers use their best contacts first, then their contact's friends, and only if everything fails do they look at the list if unknowns CVs spec applicants etc.

 

"first West End gig came as a result of somebody she'd met in Edinburgh tipping her off about a job--and putting in a good word for her." from Bobbsy above shows exactly how it works. People who like working with you will suggest your name when the panic call goes out for more crew.

 

As Ynot says, do NOT big yourself up even slightly, realistically only relevant and recent professional experience counts.

[bruce]

I think I may give a few of the theatres a call, have a chat with the 'powers that be' for this type of thing. A casual conversation about possible opportunities can't harm can it?

 

Depends how you come over when having that chat. If you come over as a responsible, sensible, mature, reliable person, then it won't do any harm. If you come over as an arrogant a**e, then you will definitely do your future prospects some damage.

 

It's a cliche, but you only get one chance to make a first impression.

[ImagineerTom]

ok, why?

 

1) You've got effectively no professional Theatre / Musicals experience so why do you think you'll be chosen over and above all the hundreds of people with lots of experience and qualifications who also want to work in the west end. At present there's over 1000 people graduating with performing arts related degrees and qualifications EVERY YEAR all of whom are chasing the same jobs you are.

 

2) What do you think you'll actually be doing in the WE - in that environment you're entirely an operator with absolutely no creative input whatsoever. There's not any career progression or chance to develop your skillset and unless you land a long-running show you'll be constantly out of work.

 

Go work in a regional recieving house for a few years and you'll have the chance to work all the big shows, have scope for career progression within the venue and build up a network of skills and contacts that will put you on the "first call" list everyone else has talked about. You'll also be earning MORE money and have a BETTER standard of living whilst doing a more fun job.

[tommulliner]

Go work in a regional recieving house for a few years and you'll have the chance to work all the big shows, have scope for career progression within the venue and build up a network of skills and contacts that will put you on the "first call" list everyone else has talked about. You'll also be earning MORE money and have a BETTER standard of living whilst doing a more fun job.

I have not experienced this myself as I am still a 'kid', but I know of a few 18-20 year olds who, at my local receiving house, got jobs as casual crew and worked on 2-3 shows a month and eventually managed to get friendly with one of the touring companies that visited and landed a decent role with in the company, eg. cheif lx, all from working on a show when they came to the theatre, so what Tom above was saying could well work out well for you.

[kerry davies]

Dang me, but the boy is persistent.

 

Aaron, this is your 9th topic raised regarding work going back to September '07 when you were 14, you should be the resident BR expert by now. All the comments here have been made many times before, and all I can add is a rhyme my ex-wife used to sing at me frequently.

"Patience is a virtue, practise if you can. Seldom found in women and never in a man."

 

As Bob pointed out you still have 4 months to go before a professional outfit of any kind could insure you and aiming to start in the West End is a little ambitious. You are not looking to "jump up" from anything other than amateur status and claiming to have worked professionally since you were 16 actually counts against you, or it does in my eyes.

[Biro]

Alas, I would agree with Kerry Davies - We have seen you come back again and again to this forum with the same basic topic, just a year older.

 

I would not employ someone who at 17 claims to have a wealth of experience, more than anything its just annoying and does not make you stand out from everyone else. You say several times in your profile that you are a 'Freelance' engineer, yet when people see your date of birth they laugh! What else makes you stand out? There are many University Degree's wising up to the Industry - Mountview, Rose Bruford, LIPA, Derby, Glamorgan, Central.... All of these people have one thing better than you - A degree, a proof of dedication to work.

 

If you hunt the job boards for a different industry, the amount of jobs that require you to have a degree is vast.

 

There is always the education Vs. Experience debate, at the end of the day when you are 35, done touring, have a child and you need the stable income, and your employer is looking at two of you, one with a degree one without, who is he more likely to pick?

 

Insurance is one of the many things that is against you, but unless you live within easy access of the West End, its still against you. Trains don't run all night, if you drive congestion charge will eat into you..all the gripes of living in London.

 

 

I apologise if my post has turned into a Education Vs. Work debate, but I have been on this forum and others for quite a while, and you keep coming back with the same questions!

[Aaron-Hill07]

First of all - Thanks for all the replies so far on the topic, I can assure you I am genuinely taking all of it in.

 

And also to those who have said 'You keep coming back with the same questions', I think that is a bit unfair.. I don't make a habbit of asking on here about ways to do things in terms of employment simply because I always get these responses as I often find that users on here are too set in their ways that 'Kids aren't good enough'. I would understand of course if you'd worked with me a few times and found me to be crap at my job, but I guess that's just the problem; none of you do know how I work in the industry. I'm a person that works extremely hard, and has gone from the bottom and started walking up that long ladder of experience.

 

I asked this question as it's theatre I want to work in, and I do know that 99% of west-end theatres do take on students etc. and people of my age for followspotting every now-and- then which is why I wanted to know the best way of doing it. I expected the usual ' It's who you know' and 'It's mainly luck of being there at the right time' which is fine, but I was also hoping for some more constructive answers of ways they've done it or know people that've done it. Which is why answers like those from 'Bobbsy' are much more constructive and have actually helped me more than some of the posts seen on here so far.

 

I knew insurance was going to be an issue, as it's something I've struggled with a lot so far but you never know until you find out for yourself. I certainly wouldn't be still here if I gave up at the first 'no, sorry we can't insure you' response.

 

So, thanks to those who've posted constructive help and pointers...

 

Aaron.

[paulears]

and I do know that 99% of west-end theatres do take on students etc. and people of my age for followspotting every now

If you know this, then you also know the people who could put in a good word. To be honest, Aaron, I'm amazed because I suspect many of us know that 99% is a figure just picked out. On the rota here there's not a single spot op under 25, because nobody wants unproven people who can mess up a show so badly if they really don't know how professional spotting is done. For this show some really accurate spot work is required because if it's not done exactly right, it reveals something the audience must not see - and I've had to remove one person from the list because their first time just wasn't good enough. West End doesn't really mean very much in qudos to those who work there, yet seems to be some kind of aspiration of those for those not there.

 

Once you are 18, then you kind of automatically gain some status by virtue of age. 18 really does mean something. Not that you are suddenly better, but that you don't have restrictions on you. Venues can easily employ you if you are 16-18 if they want, but the fact is that the 'average' 16-18 year old isn't really mature enough to be given responsibility, so insurance is a handy cop-out. It's easily get aroundable if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

 

I know tons of responsible 17 year olds who are vastly outnumbered by the immature ones - fact of life.

 

My own son was a good example - once he was 18 he could do what he wanted and I recommended him for jobs. At 17, he was still a kid. Not able to drink, or take any legal responsibility, or sign his name to legal documents.

 

Patience is worth developing, honestly!

[mrcog]

Aaron,

 

I'm going to throw something a little bit different in here which could get me shot down a bit however I believe it's a worthwhile suggestion. Have you considered joining the National Youth Theatre? I became a member just after I turned 17 but before I started professional work, however I joined with a fair amount of am dram experience. Even though I didn't learn that much throughout my season in London, it made me the contacts in the West End. Okay I'm not a lampie, I do noise however everything I say still stands.

 

The mentors the NYT take on are all professionals, all have worked in pro theatres and the majority have worked in the west end. If you can show them that your passionate and able while you are doing your season you can make contacts with them. 6 months after my NYT season was up, my sound mentor sent me an e-mail asking me if I would consider taking on a Sound Number 2 job, in a west end theatre. Unfortunately I had to turn it down, however it just shows that by proving myself in a volunteer position it shows people your good at what you do.

 

I also managed to shadow numerous operators in numerous west-end shows, these mentors have links with most people in London and really pull out all the stops to help you progress your experience. Also, they are a brilliant source of advice for once you leave assuming you stay in contact!

 

It's defiantly something I'd consider if you want to try and start getting these links to people in the west-end. If you live in London it's not going to cost the earth as well as you can live at home during your season.

 

Feel free to PM me with any questions,

 

James

[Aaron-Hill07]

James, I had literally just started looking into it.. I know someone I can stay with in London so it would be feasable to do so. I will have a better look into it,

 

Thanks!