Lamplighter Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (thread split off from discussion on cable for headworn mics) Thanks for your ideas, I'm inclined towards the Sommer cable as it is sold by the metre. Bob, I have not had any particular problem with sweat damage, most of my failures are due to flexing at the plug or mic end of the cable. I have also had some hairclip damage to the sheath. The current project is to rebuild the CPC MP33521 headbands to reposition the mics just below the ear instead of them being wrapped right across the face. I used 3 like this for the last show and found them to be very effective, staying put during dance sequences and sounding reasonably natural. It is easy to keep the mic just off the skin so I don't anticipate too much sweat damage. The other reason for this approach is that the talent like them, so tend to take care. They are supplied with a very poor quality lead which fails rapidly, hence the original post. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Brian - that's interesting what you say about the CPC mics. I've also got a couple, and will probably be buying a few more - at around a fiver each they're incredibly good value! The connectors to make them work with my radio units cost twice as much as the mics! I'd be interested to know how you mounted the mics- I found the existing wire mount a bit awkward. Did you have to bend/cut it? did you tape it in place? Any photos?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 A fiver a mic? Crazy! I've not encountered them before at all....how do they sound (and how big are they since the info I found on the web site doesn't include dimensions or a photo). I've always stuck to MKE2s and Countryman offerings...I wouldn't expect that level of quality but I could get 30 or 40 of these for the cost of one Mickey. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 It's marketed as an OEM or replacement part - there's a small mic with black foam cover, with a head-shaped wire for holding it in place :P Bare wires at the other end. The wire is of stiff-coat-hanger style, the mic and lead are heat-shrinked onto it, and there's a plastic cap over the sharp end... The design is not unlike RS part number 207-2192, which is about 60 quid. Stick this number into rswww.com and you'll see a picture. It may be a bit "intrusive" for some applications - hence the discussion on altering the mount to move it backwards towards the ear - painting it flesh-coloured also makes a difference. What you really need is a teenage daughter - mine has a huge selection of stuff for painting nails, in all sorts of shades! There's some discussion of them on THIS THREAD from a few months ago. They're surprisingly good, bearing in mind the price - at that sort of money, you can afford to use them a few times and chuck them away if damaged! I don't have a pic - there's one in the catalogue, but that's at work at the moment. Bruce. Edit: The image below is the RS version, which looks remarkably similar, apart from the plug... http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R207219-01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 Bruce is right about the previous thread, this is where it started for me. I tried to take pictures of the modified units but found it very difficult to achieve anything meaningful. When they are in position you can't see very much, and off the head they have no context. The quality is better than the standard Trantecs but this is probably due to position as much as any other factor. The wire hoop is slightly thinner and a fair bit springier than coat hanger wire. There is a bit of work involved in cutting and reshaping then heat shrinking the cable to the wire. I find that the small rubber loops that hold the cable to the wire at the back of the head are worth reusing. They make a strain relief and prolong the cable life. The end result is what I am looking for, but may not suit all applications. Having seen some awful looking mics, I have always aimed for low visual impact. It's a bit like sound re-inforceing, it shouldn't be intrusive. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Thanks for that...at the price I've gotta get a couple and try them out! I must have missed the previous thread...I've been pretty well off line since late April until last week (working a contract in Australia) so guess that's when it came up before. Cheers, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 (working a contract in Australia) Welcome home, two winters in succession! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Welcome home, two winters in succession! ** laughs out loud **...not if I can help it (the winters that is). Looking likely I'll be heading back in six weeks or so...but with laptop this time so I can stay in touch! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 As a result of a goodly number of PM's on this topic I've been persuaded to put together a few notes to tidy up and share a useable design for a head worn mic for use with theatre radio mic systems. Most of the elements have appeared in this and previous threads so there is little original thought on my part. The starting point is the CPC headset MP33521, £5-74 +VAT. This provides several useful parts at modest cost. The wire band is about the best I have come across with the right amount of spring. The electret capsule is similar to that used on several manufacturer supplied systems and with a little care can be reterminated on a better cable than originally supplied.. I had several failures of the original cable with little real use. My preferred replacement is Canford Mogami Part No 30-910 which has proved as robust as most of the cables I have tried and is flexible enough. The two rubbery figure of eight cable supports are a must as is the pear drop guard on the open end of the hoop. Dispose of the foam windshield Cut off the heatshrink holding the electret capsule and cable. Bend the wire hoop to obtain the required angle over the ear and down the cheek. It is desirable for capsule to sit just off the face. When you are happy with the fit cut off the excess wire and file the end clean. Fit a short length ( 1 cm) of heatshrink projecting 1 to 2mm beyond the wire. Fit the cable through the figure of eight supports and prepare the end of the cable. Fit 3mm of heatshrink to the screen connection, tin the screen and trim to leave 1 mm ready to solder to the capsule. Cut and tin the inner to match. The spare core can be twisted into the screen or trimmed off. Heatshrink the cable butt and 1.5mm over the screen and inner. Align the tinned ends with the end of the hoop wire, with the figure of eight supports in position such that the cable drops from the rear centre of the hoop. Tape the cable and supports in place. Spray the cable and hoop from the centre to the mic end. I use a standard car aerosol, Sandalwood beige being the best match to skin tone in stock. When dry fit a length of clear heatshrink from rear centre to the end of the hoop, leave unheated at this stage!Replace the black grill over the electret. I used a small piece of a faded yellow duster, pressed onto the original adhesive and trimmed with a sharp pair of instrument cutters. Terminate the capsule on the end of the cable. Test that it works, then position it as close to the end of the hoop as possible. Dress the cable under the hoop, test again and if satisfied with the capsule position warm the heatshrink. Spray the capsule from behind to blend it to the wire. When dry fit a 25mm length of clear heatshrink over the wire and capsule, projecting 1mm to hold the new screen in place. The end result has been quite pleasing, although they are not a universal panacea they work well and are reasonably discrete. The talent like the ease of use and the security of fit. The design however doesn’t guarantee that the user will actually switch on!The sound is also fairly natural, comparing well with any of the many other mics and positions I have previously tried. The proximity effect of two in a clinch is certainly less than a hairline pair. I have kept a few units in black for the brunettes. A failure, with a capsule forced sideways, was repaired easily overnight as was a grumbling capsule. Spare electrets are CPC part No MP33618 A few shots of the finished article http://homepage.mac.com/bryson430/.Public/miconwoman.jpghttp://homepage.mac.com/bryson430/.Public/miconbloke.jpghttp://homepage.mac.com/bryson430/.Public/Micontable.jpg[Comments and suggestions for improvements welcome. Where to get suitable flesh coloured cable for instance, or a better colour paint. Brian Fixed image sizes. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Brian, That's a great description. I also have used the cheapie CPC mics. For the money, they're excellent. The RS equivalent, which as far as I can see from the catalogue pics is identical, but with a 3.5mm plug, is ten times the price. The basic shape of the headset, as supplied, is poor - they must have been modelled on someone with a huuuuge head and a square chin. David Coulthard? :blink:. I bent the original to something very similar to the JTS mics - a bit like the design above, but with the mic protruding further forward towards the mouth, and more of a "round the ears" curve. The wire supplied with the mic is usefully stiff. Bending it by hand is awkward - but forming the curves round something like a 2" scaffold pole makes it easier. I had wondered about fabricating the section closest to the mic from florist's wire, which is usefully bendy, while keeping the original wire for the head support. I used clear heatshrink too. But due to a lack of time, I didn't get a chance to put heatshrink on 2 of the prototypes before the first performance. Just rubbed them down lightly and sprayed. They've been OK - 4 performances later, there's no chipping or peeling. Like Brian, I also used beige car paint - anything from the "80s British Leyland" range will do :( - but seriously, I picked something appropriate from Halfords - I think it was actually a Ford paint. It was difficult explaining to the guy at the checkout that "honest, I don't really have a car that colour..." However, I have recently found a better source. A teenage daughter. It's amazing the number of different coloured bottles of stuff they have to paint their nails..... I wonder if buying bottles of different coloured nail polish in Boots will be more embarrasing than buying beige car paint in Halfords.... I like the idea of using a better quality cable. Must try that. So. Total cost - about a fiver for the mic, pennies for the heatshrink, and a little paint. The whole thing costs about half the cost of the plug on the end of the cable! Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Having just received the latest CPC flyer, I thought I'd update this thread. The product we're talking about above is the CPC MP33521, £5.92, but also available on special offer as MP3552134 at £5.59. But the latest flyer also lists several other interesting bits and pieces. MP33750, and various other similar numbers - a ProSignal "unobtrusive miniature lavalier", available in black or skin-tone, with either a mini-XLR or 3.5mm jack. £5.43http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/standard/MP3375006-40.jpg MP33611 & similar - IMG Stageline - similar to above, skin coloured, with windshield,, mini-jack or mini-XLR, £16.30. Better frequency response on paper.http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/standard/MP3361105-40.jpg MP33769 - IMG Stageline "Earbud Microphone", £55http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/standard/MP3376906-40.jpg There's also a Shure one at about 80 quid. Has anyone tried any of these cheapies? Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 BruceThis is interesting. I have a CPC flyer Bulk Items This lists MP3320307 the standard black lav plus tie clip at £1.95 each if you buy 20. I have been buying 5 at a time (£3.41) to replace damaged Trantecs, it's a lot cheaper than the clips from Canford but my order for 20 is on its way! The flesh coloured units are interesting but for the time being I shall continue to make them as this gives me the required length. I have not seen the flyer you refer to, perhaps it will appear shortly? or did I miss it in the snowstorm of mailshots!Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I believe that with part numbers like this one (MP3320307) the actual part number is MP33203 and the "07" is a "special offer" code, or something like that... Try searching for MP33203 on its own, then MP33203XX, where XX runs from 00 to 10 - you'll find the same product at several prices.... The flyer I saw them in was bundled with this months L&SI. "CPC Sounds & Effects, valid 6 Oct-29 Dec". I don't think I've seen that one come through via the mailshots I get at work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm_machine Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 YOu can usually find the special offer catalogues online as downloadable PDF files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Slight update - there's also a Monacor unit with "round-both-ears-loops", available in flesh or black, for 22 pounds - MP3381834 and 3381934. No picture, Interestingly, it's marked as "Monacor" in the paper catalogue, but "Stageline" on the web catalogue. I am planning to buy a few different models and try them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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