I Beam attachment options

[Cestm0i64]

At the centre I work at we have an entertainment space that we want to add some mini movers to for ambient lighting that can be adjusted per occasion.

The structure of the building has vertical girders in plentiful supply so it seems a little overkill/wasteful to hang lighting bars when there’s so much structure available.

I’ve been looking around at clamping options to fix single fixtures and come across the below on stage depot.

Does anyone have any experience with rigging on verticals girders that could tell me whether these are appropriate, overkill or whether I would be better using 2 of these to suspend a scaffold bar between girders. I’ll also link the fixtures I’m looking to install below.

Thanks in advance

https://stagedepot.co.uk/rigging-install-staging/hardware/beam-girder-clamps/elumen8-girder-clamp?sku=PC-CLAM16&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0MexBhD3ARIsAEI3WHI7eaYbGLRCrr49R8ydLsd4yDLtcCBruwbvKRwyttv_qW_8MMpofmIaAhhLEALw_wcB

https://www.thomann.de/gb/varytec_hero_wash_715_hex_led.htm

[TomHoward]

The simplest way might be to use Gravlock couplers, (you need to use them in pairs each side of the RSJ) and add a short 2ft-3ft length of 48mm pipe.

https://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk/scaffolding-fitting-forged-girder-coupler-gravlok-12-.aspx

 

However these are not usually rated for vertical attachment as they could slip down the beam...

If you wanted to do it smaller you could also use Unistrut - the grown up Meccano - again probably worth fitting in pairs both sides of the beam but would give a channel to bolt into on the face side 

 

[sunray]

3 hours ago, Cestm0i64 said:

Does anyone have any experience with rigging on verticals girders that could tell me whether these are appropriate, overkill or whether I would be better using 2 of these to suspend a scaffold bar between girders. I’ll also link the fixtures I’m looking to install below.

 

https://stagedepot.co.uk/rigging-install-staging/hardware/beam-girder-clamps/elumen8-girder-clamp?sku=PC-CLAM16&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0MexBhD3ARIsAEI3WHI7eaYbGLRCrr49R8ydLsd4yDLtcCBruwbvKRwyttv_qW_8MMpofmIaAhhLEALw_wcB

Those Doughty brackets are an expensive way to purchase a couple of LINDAPTER fittings  (and a length of angle iron) I've often seen them used on vertical beams with a pair of half couplers and length of tube, Personally I'd be a little uncomfortable and would be happier with a plate with 4 or even 6 fittings.

[Cestm0i64]

Thanks for your input guys

@TomHoward I like the look of the clamps to add a 48mm piece of scaffolding but as @sunray says I’d like to be sure I can find a clamp rated for vertical placement.

@sunray by plate, do you mean drilling in to the beam and bolting a metal plate to it?

[Simon Lewis]

I think you would need what Lindapter call a high friction clamp if you want to mount it on a vertical girder. Even then, you would most likely need two on each side of your mounting plate, or use two  pieces of unistrut. The obvious problem is just a slight loss of grip may result in the clamp slipping...

[sunray]

10 hours ago, Cestm0i64 said:

Thanks for your input guys

@TomHoward I like the look of the clamps to add a 48mm piece of scaffolding but as @sunray says I’d like to be sure I can find a clamp rated for vertical placement.

@sunray by plate, do you mean drilling in to the beam and bolting a metal plate to it?

Obviously drilling the column would be a brilliant solution but not one I'd recommend without a structural engineers sayso.

 

The thing with these is; despite seeing it done on a regular basis, I wouldn't be comportable relying on one fixing onto the each edge of a column. However if the there were 4 clamps I think it would be a different matter.

Those clamps are only £1 to 2 ( I haven't purchased any for a number of years so don't know how prices have changed) so in my view £32 seems excessive for a piece of angle with a few punched holes.

 

However I believe Tom's Gravlocks would be a more appropriate fitting but still the doubt about the suitability for a vertical column.

 

A quick search for Lindapter comes up with a selection of fixings, such as https://www.lindapter.com/application/gc33 essentially a plate with holes with the correct spacing and clamp blocks doing the work, this plate happens to be an 'L' bracket:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6 by sunray
EDIT I started writing the reply a couple of hours back and hadn't checked for updates to see Simons reply.

[Cestm0i64]

Gotcha,

I’d certainly be very uncomfortable putting holes in a beam and see where you’re going with the 4 clamps and a plate to fix to, especially clamps that are designed for vertical installation.

Getting quotes for install is on the table but thought it worthwhile also investigating the viability of a self install (and getting an idea of what can be done when solutions are presented).

I don’t suppose you have any recommendations for rigging installers in the Kent area that I could approach, I feel as though I’m drowning in sponsored search results and prefer a recommendation that I can trust?

[TomHoward]

I don't think you'll be that likely to find a clamp rated for vertical attachment based on friction alone... I'd have more faith in practice in the Gravlocks than unistrut as it's a much bigger clamp even though it isn't rated. I think your next option would probably be drill & bolt as suggested...

You could also use the gravlocks or similar vertically in a risk assessed way (ie it's massively under it's working load) and then add a safety chain back to something existing (drop a wire from the top, fix to an existing bolt hole or a eye on the wall in the masonry)

 

[J Pearce]

I’ve used gravlocks on vertical beams, subject to risk assessment that reduced the risk of slipping and reduced the hazard created by any slipping.

I’ve not seen any “do not use vertically” warnings, though there are the very obvious warnings about using them in pairs.

[sunray]

5 hours ago, Cestm0i64 said:

Gotcha,

I’d certainly be very uncomfortable putting holes in a beam

I have drilled and tapped columns, and for that matter horizontal beams too, but under coordination with a structural engineer in writing before I started and continued inspection/checking during works.

5 hours ago, Cestm0i64 said:

 and see where you’re going with the 4 clamps and a plate to fix to, especially clamps that are designed for vertical installation.

I wouldn't do anything less and quite honestly for a moving item weighing 4KG I'd personally be looking at using at least 2 of those arrangements.

 

5 hours ago, Cestm0i64 said:

Getting quotes for install is on the table but thought it worthwhile also investigating the viability of a self install (and getting an idea of what can be done when solutions are presented).

I don’t suppose you have any recommendations for rigging installers in the Kent area that I could approach, I feel as though I’m drowning in sponsored search results and prefer a recommendation that I can trust?

All of those I'd recommend have unfortunately retired/got too unhealty or as seems to be happening too often; passed away. I used to work for a nightclub light and sound company and their attitude was 'just whack it up' and seeing others works I fear that is a too common approach these days.

[sunray]

2 hours ago, TomHoward said:

I don't think you'll be that likely to find a clamp rated for vertical attachment based on friction alone...

The Lindapter items Simon and I have referred to are actually structural devices and designed to support horizontal structural beams: https://www.lindapter.com/application/gc31 So should be suitable for the situation

3 hours ago, TomHoward said:

I'd have more faith in practice in the Gravlocks than unistrut as it's a much bigger clamp even though it isn't rated. I think your next option would probably be drill & bolt as suggested...

I've used the Unistrut fitting you linked to on numerous occasions but I wouldn't dream of using them vertical, they rely on clamping against a relatively flimsy box and may appear very solid when installed but then loads applied may easily alter the shape of the strut. Think about what happens to the shape of a round pipe when bent.

 

3 hours ago, TomHoward said:

You could also use the gravlocks or similar vertically in a risk assessed way (ie it's massively under it's working load) and then add a safety chain back to something existing (drop a wire from the top, fix to an existing bolt hole or a eye on the wall in the masonry)

2 hours ago, J Pearce said:

I’ve used gravlocks on vertical beams, subject to risk assessment that reduced the risk of slipping and reduced the hazard created by any slipping.

I’ve not seen any “do not use vertically” warnings, though there are the very obvious warnings about using them in pairs.

Agreed, I have used gravlocks vertically but only for light duty; couple of patt23/PAR 64 LEDs etc however always with additional fixings/safeties in place.

[themadhippy]

weld a nut or 2 to the I beam

[ImagineerTom]

That is terrible advice - this WILL impact the properties of the beam and almost certainly reduce its rating. 
Steel frame construction increasingly “economises” its design to ensure parts are only just strong enough to meet the forces (and safety factors) applied to them- compromising the integrity of the beam by randomly welding non-standard connection parts to it is crazy and needless. 
 

Non-destructive connectors are perfect for the task the OP is trying to achieve, permanent structural modifications absolutely are not. 

Edited May 6 by ImagineerTom