Jester ml

[indyld]

I'd forgot the CL. Certainly user friendly if all you have is static LEDs.

I guess my concern with these more limited options in this thread is when someone goes off and buys a load of Headbangers or whatever for pennies and wants Strictly. 

[indyld]

42 minutes ago, Edward- Z88 said:

However, what never ceases to amaze me, is the speed at which students pick up and learn FLX.

This.

Young people are a lot better at picking up UIs that are designed in the last decade (source: I teach young people lighting programming). Lighting control 'apps' these days necessarily take away a lot of the nuts and bolts of DMX channels, Shutter to 028 etc. so in order to get a meaningful output I'd argue that the current breed of basic consoles for complex fixtures are much better and more intuitive to a person with no prior experience than 'this slider does the Magenta in a subtractive colour mixing system'. Select fixture, press colour, carry on without wondering how the colour gets there. (Now, as an educator I believe that teaching professionals is different and that they still need to understand DMX basics and what is happening within a fixture to be able to use it properly.)

Obviously, schools, groups etc. can't rely on students to be the backbone of their tech production year on year.

Recently I was contacted by a school technician regarding lighting control training for their various stakeholders (e.g drama, dance teachers) in the two venues they ran.

My response was that 'drama teachers do not need moving light programming training. They do not want it, have no time for it, and you'll waste money on something that won't solve the problem'. The tech had 99 problems and none of them would be solved by teaching drama teachers to be lighting programmers. All the problems were due to resources, scheduling, a lack of technical help for the lone technician, and unrealistic expectations from every one caught up in their one show. The only help I could offer was to confirm what they already knew. 

Anyway, I think several of us here have put down the marker that whatever the solution is, it's something from a recent catalogue.

Edit for postscript:

Myself and colleagues recognise that in lighting particularly in 2023, you need much more learning to start at entry level job than you did 30 years ago. When I started out, you could be a well employed freelance lampie that 'only did generics'. The reason this is relevant in these conversations is that the subject and expectations, even equipment availability, is a whole new world. This is why many schools etc. have at least one theatre tech. It's just not a field that your drama teacher / caretaker can dabble in beyond the traditional rig of conventionals and a few basic LEDs. The situation is much the same for other groups - they want and can now get hold of all manner of things but still need something and someone to use them.

Edited November 24, 2023 by indyld

[Robin D]

40 minutes ago, Edward- Z88 said:

I hope this hasn't come across as me ramming FLX down your throats. I'm not a sales guy so had no intention to! Just my personal outlook on the topic.

Far from it Edward. I think you make many valid points. 

There was one other thing that I remember after posting. If I remember correctly, I think your support people said I could do it with an FLX but not the FLX(S) being the ability to exclude things from a DBO. There was a need to ensure that a couple of blues above the stage stayed on at all times for safety and also because one of the kids was terrified of complete dark and had a meltdown!. Even on my very, very old 70's Colortran 2 preset desk I could set independents that were then excluded from the master fader or DBO. 

I may have misremembered or misunderstood the absence of the feature. I had the drama teacher, Head of Drama and Deputy Principal breathing down my neck and was getting close to panic myself by then! 😘

[Edward- Z88]

9 minutes ago, Robin D said:

If I remember correctly, I think your support people said I could do it with an FLX but not the FLX(S) being the ability to exclude things from a DBO. There was a need to ensure that a couple of blues above the stage stayed on at all times for safety

On FLX and FLX S, it is possible to essentially create your own Grand Master & Blackout. To do this you would set all the fixtures you'd like to be affected by your GM/DBO to full, and record that to the playback fader you'd like to use as your GM/DBO. You can then configure that playback to be "Inhibit", and it will now act as a Grand Master just for the fixtures you chose, leaving other fixtures untouched.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Edward- Z88

[indyld]

35 minutes ago, Robin D said:

There was a need to ensure that a couple of blues above the stage stayed on at all times for safety and also because one of the kids was terrified of complete dark and had a meltdown!.

The term for this particular case is 'park' and although I'm not an FLX user, am pretty sure you can park channels. This is common with all decent desks these days and used in this case, for working lights, DMX controlled tech power and anything else you want fixed at a specific level regardless of what else is going on.

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/user-definable-keys/advanced-udks/parking

You would use an inhibit, group master, or intensity master only if you wanted to grab control or override other playbacks, pro level desks also have this but not sure about entry level things. But park is what you were looking for.

Edited November 24, 2023 by indyld

[Edward- Z88]

1 minute ago, indyld said:

The term for this particularly case is 'park' and although I'm not an FLX user, am pretty sure you can park channels.

To confirm, yes, fixtures can be parked on FLX consoles. You can also configure a fixture to be at a certain intensity value by default, which is a slightly different approach.

[sunray]

I have done 3 drama summer schools at junior school level, each time has been with one or two others to give an insight into lighting and sound alongside the drama staff. I agree with Indyld that the drama teacher doesn't need to be fully tech trained but does need an insight.

I have found the youngsters understand DMX easier when taught on a basic manual desk where they can instantly see what a fader does.

To put this into perspective we rig some bars at about a metre and start with a pile of lights and cables. We describe DMX, how to address fittings and plug it up, show basic operation with a manual desk and a PC/dongle. Then split into 2 groups of about 2 to 4 if there are enough and get them to rig lights,  programme and operate.

At the end of the 5 weeks there is a play (they rig lights on windup tripods) and the group on the manual desk manage to do a better show than the PC. Bearing in mind these are under 11's, I imagine this quickly changes as they become more computer literate  and we don't supply any movers.

[Robin D]

3 hours ago, sunray said:

At the end of the 5 weeks there is a play (they rig lights on windup tripods) and the group on the manual desk manage to do a better show than the PC.

Does that mean I operate at the level of an 11 year-old????? 🤣🤣 

[sunray]

4 hours ago, Robin D said:

Does that mean I operate at the level of an 11 year-old????? 🤣🤣 

I don't know, are you that good?😜😂

Let's not get into thinking these are West end plays, these are children farmed out during the holiday while parents enjoy the freedom of working for a living😁 and the play is little more than half hour and a dozen cues. However it's virtually performed entirely by the kids after 5 weeks of having fun.