A Flaming 'Z' for production of Zorro the Musical

[Bridgnorth Steps]

I am looking for a good way of creating a burning 'Z' on stage, without resorting to the safe option of projection. Currently thinking along the lines of Flash paper rolled into tubes to create the shape of the letter and ignited using flash cotton and a Le Maitre supplied igniter. Will this work or should I look at using Angel Fire Flame Paste from Le Maitre? Which would obviously need to be spread on a flame proof surface.

[ImagineerTom]

Step one - have you got insurance for live fire on stage and venue permission (including with reference to premises license) as whilst you might get away without these things for a candle on a birthday cake an effect of this scale definitely requires explicit permissions and wavers. You will also need the appropriate fire extinguishers and rated storage facilities backstage.

The following advice is for entertainment purposes only...

Flash paper won't behave like you want it to; even rolled up in a tube one element would only light after the piece next to it has fully burned away; flash paper burns surprisingly slowly and you'd create something that looks more like a slow burning "mission impossible" fuse. A slightly better effect could be had with (fast) flash string; the whole thing wouldn't ignite at once but you'd get a zip-zap-zig-zag of flame in the right sort of shape that would certainly feel like a flaming Z

Paste probably wouldn't be appropriate (certainly it would be no safer than any other fuel source) as it produces a relatively wimpy flame and your only way to extinguish it (other than blasting it with a noisy CO2 cylinder) would be to wait for it to naturally burn out and thus dramatically over-heating the frame it was attached to and generally not being "controlled" in any safety sense. 

The original prop was done with gas but the very fact you're asking about this on a public forum means by definition you don't have the skills or experience to make something using this method that is even close to being safe or practical so do not waste a second of your life going down that path.

Remember that any flown fire prop has to have rigging and connections appropriately rated for the high temperatures that occur, plus any item within 2m in any direction and up to 4m above the prop will need to be specifically fire proofed / rated for direct flame and prolonged heat exposure as flash products are effectively real fire.

 

TLDR; with some experimentation a reasonable approximation could be created with flash string, but you are much more likely to get something practical, affordable and achievable by projection.

[Brian]

RGB LED tape in a diffuser? 

[Jivemaster]

I'd be looking at the fake flame items built with blown silk tatters and lots of coloured lights. MUCH less of a fire risk than any pyro item. Used to be made with MR16/35 halogen lamps may be updated to (big) LEDs. What is the duration of the effect, Does it need to be re-lit during the show?

Re-imagine this  https://www.terralec.co.uk/flame_effects/led_flame_effect_in_flightcase___dmx_rgba/34989_p.html

[kerry davies]

This sort of effect is right up my street and I can make it work but I wouldn't attempt it onstage before a live audience. For film it is eminently possible and I have done lots more complicated and more enormous effects outdoors.

You kind of blew it in your original post when you wrote about resorting to the safe option of projection. It's the safe option.

Edited October 4, 2022 by kerry davies
E2A

[Jivemaster]

Since when has projection onto a black screen been functional?

[alistermorton]

Done it  - our projector has black as one of the screen colour options. 

[Jivemaster]

Look at S+H (starcloth.co.uk) for a fibre optic logo on black cloth.

See whether S&H has a hire stock Zoro "Z"

Edited October 5, 2022 by Jivemaster
added

[J Pearce]

8 hours ago, Jivemaster said:

Since when has projection onto a black screen been functional?

It’s just a balance of contrast ratio. Keep your ambient low enough and your image bright enough and it’ll be fine.

I’ve done plenty of projection onto black, even a black gauze. 
Obviously bright block colour/white works much better than a detailed image, but we’re a long way from the 3000 and 5000 lumen Sanyos of the 2000s now.

Edited October 5, 2022 by J Pearce

[ImagineerTom]

20 hours ago, Brian said:

RGB LED tape in a diffuser? 

TBH I'm annoyed I hadn't thought of this - some addressable RGB tape in a Z shape (possibly even mounted behind some black fabric so it's invisible until turned on) could do a really nice zig-zag of fire with a prolonged glow afterwards that fades away. 

[T*ny]

On 10/5/2022 at 12:38 AM, Jivemaster said:

Since when has projection onto a black screen been functional?

https://shop.flints.co.uk/Product-Details/All/PAT24003 

[Ynot]

8 hours ago, T*ny said:

https://shop.flints.co.uk/Product-Details/All/PAT24003 

"Excellent luminance — sends more light back than you throw into it "

Er, isn't that a little beyond the laws of physics....???
😮

[themadhippy]

Quote

Er, isn't that a little beyond the laws of physics..

Its flints,the purveyor of sky hooks, so a little humour  is expected