Best smoke machine setup?? (Beginner)

[ImagineerTom]

[quote]What currency are you quoting in here? You started off talking $$, so renting any sort of kit at $11,000 is pretty astounding!![/quote]

OP is in Japan and flipping between USD & Yen, there's roughly 60 yen = £1  so Y11,000 is about a £70 rental.

OP is also a student at a school so doesn't have the experience of venues most on this board have hence my recommendation that SPECIFIC questions be asked & actual specifications given since the performance space is almost certainly nothing like anything any of us are imagining it to be and huge confusion and complications will arise because of assumptions and guesses.

Edited September 6, 2022 by ImagineerTom

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Ynot said:

You can, but as I mentioned above, that effect has its limits.

Another thing to bear in mind is that in that video, the guy is running it in his living room which is unlikely to be as potentially warm as a concert hall full of people and theatre lights - and presumably HVAC stirring the air. So the low-lying effect he shows - which is also very thin, both in content and height off the ground - is unlikely to last very long. And you have to run the smoke at a slow output so that the ice has chance to actually cool it enough to be anywhere near that effect so volume over a large space with those is not going to be practical.

I've used a couple of those ADJ type machines in the past with plenty of ice cubes, or even freeze-paks and they've never really delivered anywhere near a satisfactory effect. Not tried it with CO2, but if you have dry ice, then use that for the proper effect - although make sure that's done by a faculty member or responsible adult who's been made aware of the simple safety rules for handling CO2.

 

Yea.. All the cold and dangerous stuff will be handled by or under supervision + there's some older kids (who are pretty responsible as they are the director's assistance for this show and possibly director for future musicals)

 And all the equipment I suggest will be checked by someone to make sure I'm not getting a chinese bomb machine.

23 minutes ago, Ynot said:

Then what you need to look at is (not surprisingly) a HAZE machine for that 'hazy vibe'

I thought haze was to enhance lighting effects and is invisible? Ill look into haze

19 minutes ago, Ynot said:

We've already covered this but to clarify:

Pukka dry ice low fog effects will 100% achieve that low lying mist rolling in over the gravestones effect, and is very likely to be the cheapest option to get that effect, especially if your school's supply of CO2 is enough to do the job. Dry ice will NOT rise as it warms up - it just evaporates into nothing.

Smoke is by nature going to rise once it loses the chill applied by whatever cooling mechanism you employ. Fast disperse fluid will react in a similar way to dry ice, in that it too will disappear before it gets too high, but that again depends on the atmospheric conditions in your venue.

Safety wise, yes, CO2 is a nasty substance to handle, and MUST be used with care - as I mentioned, by a responsible adult who's been shown how to do so safely. I'm not quite as paranoid as Paul on this one, although would most definitely be more so if I thought that the operation of pea soupers was being left to students... 😮

 

Dry ice seems like a good idea.. Any ideas on any good machines? Or (This is purely just my stupid brain thinking outloud) since the smoke machines basically just pump liquid, can I use for example a mister kool with water in the tank at a very low speed and that water drips into the dry ice?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, ImagineerTom said:

[quote]What currency are you quoting in here? You started off talking $$, so renting any sort of kit at $11,000 is pretty astounding!![/quote]

OP is in Japan and flipping between USD & Yen, there's roughly 60 yen = £1  so Y11,000 is about a £70 rental.

OP is also a student at a school so doesn't have the experience of venues most on this board have hence my recommendation that SPECIFIC questions be asked & actual specifications given since the performance space is almost certainly nothing like anything any of us are imagining it to be and huge confusion and complications will arise because of assumptions and guesses.

The hall isn't tiny nor enormous. Not like a school cafeteria level Hall has 700 seats total area 700^3

I dont have exact dimensions on the stage 

Photo might help? Table is at least 2-3m long so the stage is around 10-15m long?

(Sorry I might have gotten confused at some point in the thread with the other stage we have which is huge with an orchestra pit etc. and famous musicians have played there. its more of a classical music hall than drama)

Edited September 6, 2022 by clownfish81

[Jivemaster]

Looking at the "Scary Mysterious... " picture you post, I'm tempted to consider a projected background with just a few real props upstage. Go outside, photograph some clouds and trees etc, merge and blend them as CGI then project them.

Maybe, perhaps a small or micro fog effect from a small hired fog/smoke machine on hire or from an ultrasonic humidifier hidden behind a prop would satisfy the wish for smoke if well backlit. Remember smoke isn't an instant start instant clear effect.....

[Brian]

For Dry Ice you need something like this...

It's a large tank of boiling water which you lower a basket of dry ice pellets into. So that's two hazards right off. Plus the stage around the unit gets covered in water. And for continuous use you need more than one machine in every location because they go off the boil really quickly.

[Brian]

For proper low smoke you need something like this...

You sit a powerful smoke machine, like a Le Maitre G300, behind it, and connect up a bottle of CO2 which has a dip tube output so that you get liquid CO2 out and not gas. The two interconnect and when you operate it you open the CO2 flow first and then the smoke. We normally use LK sized cylinders (95kg total weight) so that we don't have to worry about run time. They are noisy though.

 

This is what two Freezefog units will achieve in the Royal Albert Hall. The machines are sited downstairs, because they are noisy, and feed to the arena floor through 15m of ducting.

 

 

 

I'd reckon that one unit placed USC would fill you stage quite nicely.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Brian said:

For proper low smoke you need something like this...

You sit a powerful smoke machine, like a Le Maitre G300, behind it, and connect up a bottle of CO2 which has a dip tube output so that you get liquid CO2 out and not gas. The two interconnect and when you operate it you open the CO2 flow first and then the smoke. We normally use LK sized cylinders (95kg total weight) so that we don't have to worry about run time. They are noisy though.

 

This is what two Freezefog units will achieve in the Royal Albert Hall. The machines are sited downstairs, because they are noisy, and feed to the arena floor through 15m of ducting.

 

 

 

I'd reckon that one unit placed USC would fill you stage quite nicely.

Wow the soldiers look cool!

Ill look into freezfogs

8 hours ago, Jivemaster said:

Looking at the "Scary Mysterious... " picture you post, I'm tempted to consider a projected background with just a few real props upstage. Go outside, photograph some clouds and trees etc, merge and blend them as CGI then project them.

Maybe, perhaps a small or micro fog effect from a small hired fog/smoke machine on hire or from an ultrasonic humidifier hidden behind a prop would satisfy the wish for smoke if well backlit. Remember smoke isn't an instant start instant clear effect.....

We sadly don't have projectors

Also we are going to have a big stage cover the whole back of the stage

 

Edit: Wow those are expensive.. .Anything similar for 1000$ or so?

Edited September 6, 2022 by clownfish81

[Jivemaster]

Big events cost big money, big effects cost big money. Whatever smoke/haze you put down will gently circulate into the whole room and need clearing when the next scene begins.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jivemaster said:

Big events cost big money, big effects cost big money. Whatever smoke/haze you put down will gently circulate into the whole room and need clearing when the next scene begins.

Yea that was another question I was wondering

I saw those big DMX fans... Are those for clearing the fog for the next scene

And do you really need it 

(Also can you use a DMX dimmer box and connect a shop fan or some quiet fan to it and control via DMX)

[Jivemaster]

DMX, Dimmers and motors/fans are a dangerous mix sometimes they work sometimes one or more dies and needs replacing. 

[Ynot]

2 hours ago, clownfish81 said:

I saw those big DMX fans... Are those for clearing the fog for the next scene

Fans are all well and good, but if you're using anything that has a reasonable dispersion time then just blowing it somewhere else is just going to move the problem elsewhere.

 

[Ynot]

2 hours ago, clownfish81 said:

I saw those big DMX fans... Are those for clearing the fog for the next scene

Fans are all well and good, but if you're using anything that has a reasonable dispersion time then just blowing it somewhere else is just going to move the problem elsewhere.

 

[Ynot]

Seriously, though, I think you now need to just stop.

Stop and refer the questions to your teachers.
You are, and no disrespect here, just a student and should NOT have the responsibility for sorting ANY of this out.

Whilst student questions on 'how to' are welcomed (in the 'beginners' forum, to be blunt, you're really not nest positioned to actually sorting this sort of thing for the school.

Your teachers, or appropriate adults (eg educational technicians) need to get involved properly and start talking to either local venue techs or theatrical hire companies in the area to get proper advice and recommendations from those who can visit the venue and give accurate advice based on the venue, the school budget, and more importantly the assessed capabilities of school staff.

[Brian]

9 hours ago, clownfish81 said:

Edit: Wow those are expensive.. .Anything similar for 1000$ or so?

Hire.