Unbranded lights, no D-Channel config

[ErnD]

Hello all.

I am new to DMX lighting and happened to be given a number of unbranded 18LED waterproof lights.  I am unable to control them from a known working DMX controller.  The fixture does not have a menu config for a D-channel that all other DMX light I have come across have, it does have an option for A001-512 which I assumed was the same thing (address) - however they do not respond on any channel.

The light do work fine setting RGBW and even the internal programs, and I know DMX signal is at least passing through the light, tested by using the DMX out of the fixture to another.

I thought perhaps it was just a bad fixture, but all 8 of them do the exact same thing.  I am hoping someone has seen this before and can help get these light into a mode where they listen like normal DMX fixture.  (Is there a startup key combination?  Is there a difference between A001-512 and d001-512?)

Available Menu Options:
A001-512
P01-40
So01-02
Host-Slave
r000-255
g000-255
b000-255
u000-255
u.000-255

I realize this is a tall order, not knowing the manufacturer/brand, model - but perhaps someone has come across this before.

Thanks,
Ernie

Images of fixture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-eWKdi-UUt29PvDLIv0PkUYHB7q3T9x/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SzYJ96ztpt5dclLSWZ6lcKDWm4x6tQBY/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sx7hD_qO6XFm_KrbQPmurwpId9oUDrDy/view?usp=sharing

[mar]

I would assume that A001 is indeed address. Have you got them set to slave mode at the same time?

If you set one to slave and A001, leave them on the A001 part of the menu and connect one to a simple DMX desk (with nothing else connected) can you try various combinations of the first 6 channels to see if they are some variant on RBG + Dimmer (or Dimmer + RBG). It is quite possible that channel 5 could be some form of control or strobe channel so vary that as well.

Another thing to try would be a polarity reversed DMX cable, it's not unheard of for unbranded fixtures to have the + and - swapped round. If you are happy with a soldering iron it is fairly simple to modify and existing DMX cable to act as a polarity swap - just make sure to label it to avoid confusion in the future.

Just a few thoughts to try.

[sunray]

This may sound silly but ave you been able to change settings?

For example G000-255, can you change it to a number such as 128?

Likewise A001-512, have you worked out how to change it to something like 002? (DMX Address 2)

Edited March 24, 2022 by sunray
Oh, zooming in I see the fitting in the pic is set to DMX 29, is that where you were testing?

[indyld]

Press Enter until A001 etc becomes F or P001. This can be the way different modes are selected on certain models and one of the will have a dimmer/intensity channel. The A mode is often RGBW 4 channel so if that doesn't work via DMX as expected you have other issues. However, you really will need to find out the channel map to use them.

Edited March 24, 2022 by indyld

[Don Allen]

An example from a Chinese LED PAR is the menu:
1. A001 DMX Channel Address (001-512) | 10CH mode
2. d001 DMX Channel Address (001-512) | 6CH mode

These are 6in1 LED PAR's so the 6CH mode is RGBWAU/V. The 10CH mode adds Dimmer, Strobe, Macro Functions.

The easiest way to find out what DMX channels control in an unknown LED PAR is to use a 12 channel desk with the LED PAR set to DMX 001. Then bring up all faders so you get an output. Then take down one fader alternately to find the dimmer, then have just that channel up, then bring the other faders up one at  time to identify colours, then have the dimmer and one colour up so you can find the strobe channel. The other channel left may be a macro channel.

One variation is that the Dimmer channel is 0-256 and the strobe portion is 257 - 512. This is more common with older LED PAR's.

HY-P186S-RDM v1.1.pdf

[richardash1981]

Not seen one quite light yours, but the menu looks rather like the MARQ Gamut PAR H7 I have a couple of. Firmware is regularly re-used or copied, so you might find the manual offers inspiration: https://9794a49246230fdaa24e-2647250b48e683ed16c93abebc65f679.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com//1480/downloads/Gamut PAR H7 - User Guide - v1.6.pdf

A001-512 - I would assume this is DMX address
P01-40 - auto programs (light does stuff on it's own)
So01-02 - sound activated programs (light does stuff on it's own to music)
Host-Slave - switch between self-contained (does stuff on it's own, and may send out DMX to other fixtures) and controlled (DMX input) modes. You want them in Slave mode for external control.
r000-255
g000-255
b000-255
u000-255
u.000-255 - these will let you dial in a static fixed colour without having any control input, giving you Red / Green / Blue / UV / White (last two might be swapped over). Looks like you don't have Amber LEDs.

As Don says, 12 faders (patch a dimmer fixture if necessary) gives you a good chance of finding what does what, starting from mid-position on everything.

[niclights]

'D' is by no means a standard or something to expect.  As Rob points out the prefix is sometimes used to indicate mode instead of a separate mode setting (if indeed there is more than one mode).  The DMX pass through doesn't tell you much other than that there is a cable connected with DMX.  Often fixtures have a way of indicating if they are actually receiving DMX.  Sometimes a dot in the corner of the LCD display or a separate LED.  If it doesn't have this and/or you are sure it isn't responding to DMX (for example with it set to A001 and dimmers patched/raised) then polarity sounds likely as Michael already mentioned.  This was my immediate instinct based on the information.

[ErnD]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Right now this is extremely simple setup to try to get it working - so I have been working with one or two lights, no splitters, etc. and all new DMX cables.  I can change the channels, and also values G000-255 - which act as you would expect and remain saved when the light is power on/off.  I have also tried the polarity switch on the back of the controller when the light was connected by itself.

I have done the 12-Ch on a known good console, setting fixture to A001 - and have tried many combinations of channel values, the fixture does not respond at all.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions - I have only tried 4 of the 8 fixtures, but they all behave the same way, which is hard to believe. 

If the polarity on the DMX in was reversed, then I would not expect the fixture I have connected to the DMX out to work - and it does.  Is this the wrong assumption for me to make?

Edited March 24, 2022 by ErnD

[niclights]

17 minutes ago, ErnD said:

If the polarity on the DMX in was reversed, then I would not expect the fixture I have connected to the DMX out to work - and it does.  Is this the wrong assumption for me to make?

It is the wrong assumption.  The in and out are almost certainly just paralleled and there won't be anything in the fixture that affects it.  Certainly if you reversed the polarity it would mean the other fixtures wouldn't work as it would be the wrong polarity for them (you would need to reverse it again or change the position in the chain/use a different line etc.)  All that said if your console has a polarity switch on the DMX output and it doesn't help then all I can think of is that the DMX address isn't set correctly.  Often you have to commit the setting somehow - usually by pressing an enter button or similar (possibly holding).  There is usually then some sort of confirmation.  One way to prove this might be to set the address to something like A002.  Then disconnect/reconnect the power and see if it is still on A002.

Edited March 24, 2022 by niclights

[ErnD]

Sorry - I did not type what I was thinking, I meant the light on the DMX out would NOT work IF the fixture's polarity was reversed, and since that 2nd light does work,  I can assume the polarity is wired correctly.

The changes to the address (and other settings) are stored after pressing enter, and they do survive power cycle.

Just tried 2 different fixtures, one at a time, on a known working Obey 70.  Set A001 and Slave mode, verified the settings survive power on/off.  The fixture does not respond on any channel

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by ErnD

[Ynot]

Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing when you say 'reversed'.

If you mean 'Does it matter whether I plug the cable with my DMX signal into the in or out on the fixture' then as has been said - no that does NOT matter at all as 99.99% of fixtures are just a parallel bit of wire across the input/output. Though it's really not a good idea to do it that way. 🙂

If you mean 'reversed' as in the internal wiring of the fixture may be reversed - ie pins 2 & 3 are wired wrong - then yes that WOULD give you problems. Although often that means the fixture will behave very oddly instead of not doing anything at all. But that IS a potential cause of your issues.

As for whether lights further down the chain would work - if you're using straight cables, and the first light in the chain is wired wrong (internally) but the second is correct, then that second one will work as normal, as the data is simply being passed thru the reversed fixture pin for pin.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ynot

[alistermorton]

Were they bought as a job lot? Could they have all suffered a spike that has taken out all the DMX transceivers at once?

Edited March 24, 2022 by alistermorton

[ErnD]

I am referring to the wiring - polarity, not in/out/

My statement was trying to diagnose if the fixture was wired with reverse polarity.  And I was saying, if the 1st fixture was reverse polarity then any fixture connected to its DMX out should not work.

In my case, the fixture connected to the DMX out does work, so I should be able to assume that the polarity is not reversed for the fixture in question

[Ynot]

1 minute ago, ErnD said:

I am referring to the wiring - polarity, not in/out/

My statement was trying to diagnose if the fixture was wired with reverse polarity.  And I was saying, if the 1st fixture was reverse polarity then any fixture connected to its DMX out should not work.

In my case, the fixture connected to the DMX out does work, so I should be able to assume that the polarity is not reversed for the fixture in question

As my updated post says - your assumption above is incorrect.

Do you have a reversal lead? Or can you make one up with pins 2/3 reversed on one end?

If you use a reversal lead and the suspect light DOES then work, then you will need to put a second reversal in from the out of that fixture to turn the polarity back to correct before you add any other fixtures that are NOT wired wrong. 

Does that make sense?

 

[ErnD]

A fair point alistermorton

I did not think about that - but yes, they were all in the same DMX chain for a regional bands show.   I was told they got rid of them because they were heavy (and they are), but perhaps that is the issue.   Again, I would think since it is passing data to DMX out, that would not be the case - but I certainly could be wrong.