Health and Safety

[sunray]

I was with BT in '74 but I think it was a number of years before we started adopting H&S systems and think it may very well have been up to 10 years before having to conform.

I joined BT (Sorry - PO Telecoms then) in '78 and our apprentice courses were full of safety training - ESG (Engineering Safety Guide), to name one, as well as some quite graphic videos they showed - most notable was the screwdriver inst No 1 through the palm of the hand..... :o

I'm really surprised it was still P.O. telecoms in '78, I started in '72 and my head says I only had my P.O. ID card for 3-4 years. In fact I'd like to say we locked gates between sorting offices and exchanges within a few months of finishing my apprenticeship in summer of '75 and definitely by silver jubilee in '77 a large wall was built between the two in one town as part of improving security and a jubilee plaque fitted.

 

I had a selection of ESG's as they got updated over the years; brown cover, yellow, red/white stripes, yellow & black seem to ring a bell. I got my first on the first day at work, August 14th 1972 along with tools wallet no.3 about 10 tools, welly boots, coat, bib & braces, cycling coat etc.

 

I rather liked the video with the wedding ring on the pole step

 

I'm not saying there were no safety considerations in the company, as you say every single course was rife with safety and PPE was coming out of every pore but when H&S1974 was rolled out we had no part of it. Our introduction to the act coincided with starting monthly team meetings of which the first half dozen or so were taken up almost exclusively with RA's, inspections, mitigation discussions etc. I'd say that was early 80's. We had white H&S signs about 500x300mm distributed in great quantities to be erected in prominent places in buildings and quite frankly we ran out of places to fit them, I purchased my first house in '83 and being a doer upper & the 'new' H&S regs were still very fresh [raw] in my head I installed one just inside the front door. I almost messed my pants when the boss came to the house one day but he noted in my file I took safety seriously outside of work too, because of the sign. Also we were encouraged to borrow safety items for home use and any PPE damaged outside of work was treated as a success.

 

most notable was the screwdriver inst No 1 through the palm of the hand..... :o

The instructor on a Bletchley course showed us the scar from that screwdriver...

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by sunray

[kerry davies]

Memory loss? I joined in 1974 and huge chunks of Health and Safety Commission publications had been copied verbatim from PO Telephones Civil Service literature during the introduction of HASAWA. We had safety officers and endless safety courses from day one. I missed my initial pole-climbing course but did pole testing, rigging, flat roof access, 4 or 5 different MEWPS, road signage and traffic lights, WaH organisation and supervision, electrical hand tool safety, equipment inspection and audit, electrical installation safety and much more. In Cardiff we had the best work based St John's Ambulance team in the UK and had constant catch-up sessions.

 

Perhaps I saw it more having worked at big and small engineering facilities previously and even GEC Reliance were like a cowboy outfit compared to when I joined up. The contrast between then and now, even in a conscientious company like Ford, is incredible. There just is no comparison between say a 1960's steelworks and the same era PO Telephones even the vans changed in '69 from green to yellow for safety reasons. They were years ahead of the curve.

 

PO Telephones became PO Telecommunications in 1969 becoming British Telecommunications in 1980/81 and became British Telecommunications PLC in 1984.

[Ynot]

.... even the vans changed in '69 from green to yellow for safety reasons.

Yet when they were changed from yellow ('everyday' engineers) and dark blue (Business Systems) to the very pale grey many of us saw that as a retrograde vehicle safety issue as when the fogs came down (which I seem to recall coincided with the change by chance) they were nigh on invisible... :o

[sunray]

Memory loss? I joined in 1974 and huge chunks of Health and Safety Commission publications had been copied verbatim from PO Telephones Civil Service literature during the introduction of HASAWA. We had safety officers and endless safety courses from day one. I missed my initial pole-climbing course but did pole testing, rigging, flat roof access, 4 or 5 different MEWPS, road signage and traffic lights, WaH organisation and supervision, electrical hand tool safety, equipment inspection and audit, electrical installation safety and much more. In Cardiff we had the best work based St John's Ambulance team in the UK and had constant catch-up sessions.

 

Perhaps I saw it more having worked at big and small engineering facilities previously and even GEC Reliance were like a cowboy outfit compared to when I joined up. The contrast between then and now, even in a conscientious company like Ford, is incredible. There just is no comparison between say a 1960's steelworks and the same era PO Telephones even the vans changed in '69 from green to yellow for safety reasons. They were years ahead of the curve.

 

PO Telephones became PO Telecommunications in 1969 becoming British Telecommunications in 1980/81 and became British Telecommunications PLC in 1984.

 

Im not disputing any of PO/BT safety record/systems/training courses/history etc, as I mentioned earlier every single training course I attended had heavy safety content. We had regular PPE inspections and assessments of training history to ensure it was appropriate for our duties. I agree vast amounts of HASAWEA1974 originated from existing civil service documentation, that does not mean PO telecoms were governed by it, in fact they were one of the numerous CS sectors listed which were excluded on the basis that existing procedures exceeded those of HASAWEA1974.

When I started in '74 the vast majority of vans were still green and the first van I drove was still green post '75 [after apprenticeship], that's not disputing the colour change, just mentioning it was an extremely slow introduction. When I started we used to use the PO canteens and as a TTA my ID card gave a 7.5p discount, cups of tea were 2.5p so guess whose round it always was. We were eventually stopped from sharing canteens and that was way before the end of 70's and the wall blocking off the gate between the 2 compounds had a jubilee plaque. It was part of other building works otherwise I'm sure it would have remained as a gate.

Timing of start of BT I think of the dotted logo taking over from the red crown with small red writing [maybe less than 2" high] which in turn had taken over from the white Post Office version. However it now occurs to me there was the large red written logo on vans for a while which I'd forgotten.

 

from memory I wouldn't like to say when it changed to the dots but I'll make the guess it was the 80/81 Kerry mentions.

 

 

 

 

[Ynot]

...from memory I wouldn't like to say when it changed to the dots but I'll make the guess it was the 80/81 Kerry mentions.

Kerry's got it pretty much on the nose :)

 

 

 

 

[adam2]

One minor improvement that has probably avoided a few horrible accidents, is the almost universal use of press stud fasteners on overals rather than buttons.

If a lab coat or similar garment catches fire or becomes soaked with anything dangerous, it may be QUICKLY pulled off and discarded. Not so easy with well attached buttons.

 

(This is a good reason to wear such garments in many workshops and similar places)

 

The general affordability of industrial laundry services and of d0m3stic washing machines has also helped by encouraging the wearing of clean overalls and other workwear, rather than garments impregnated with asbestos dust and other unknown materials.

 

General safety standards in work places have improved greatly in recent decades.

Sufficient lighting and heating.

Gas safety inspections, regular inspections of electrical installations and portable equipment.

Are all signs of progress.

 

I can remember workplaces lit by gas ! . Not inherently unsafe but does require regular maintence and a bit more common sense than does electric lighting. Indoor gas lighting is now almost extinct.

 

Factories with machinery driven by line shafting are now almost extinct.

 

The storage and use of petrol, LPG, explosives, and firearms are now much more tightly controlled.

[sunray]

One minor improvement that has probably avoided a few horrible accidents, is the almost universal use of press stud fasteners on overals rather than buttons.

If a lab coat or similar garment catches fire or becomes soaked with anything dangerous, it may be QUICKLY pulled off and discarded. Not so easy with well attached buttons.

 

(This is a good reason to wear such garments in many workshops and similar places)

 

 

At work we were issued with brown dust coats which were always getting caught and torn, the newer version was grey and we cursed the horrible pop studs which were difficult to fasten and kept coming undone. Thinking about it mine never did get damaged...

[adam2]

Better to tear the issued overall coat than your own clothes, and MUCH better to tear the issued overal than to tear a hole in yourself ?

 

Whilst modern workwear is in general better than that issued decades ago, it is much less worn with many employees in many workplaces wearing their own clothes these days. Many employers attach great importance to "company branding" and require the wearing of a branded polo shirt that advertises the employer but gives no significant protection against anything.

 

For most types of heavy work a one piece coverall/boilersuit is the proper thing to wear, seldom relevant to the entertainment world.

 

For most types of light work in a workshop, an overall coat, also known as a dust coat or warehouse coat is the proper thing to wear. Set building, painting, minor maintenance and repair works in general. Preferably with loose fitting work trousers that allow freedom of movement, NOT tight jeans. Usually blue or grey. If handling or preparing food other than at home, a similar garment but in white is good practice.

[sunray]

Being realistic many of the 'trades' don't get anything like as dirty as used to be the case and with the general improvement in safety, older style protective clothing is nowhere as important as it was, however more recent PPE is a different kettle of fish. Added to that clothes these days are much cheaper than the used to be and not worn/used for anything like as long and treated as disposable in a way that wouldn't have been dreamt of 40 years ago.

Better to tear the issued overall coat than your own clothes, and MUCH better to tear the issued overal than to tear a hole in yourself ?

 

Whilst modern workwear is in general better than that issued decades ago, it is much less worn with many employees in many workplaces wearing their own clothes these days. Many employers attach great importance to "company branding" and require the wearing of a branded polo shirt that advertises the employer but gives no significant protection against anything.

 

For most types of heavy work a one piece coverall/boilersuit is the proper thing to wear, seldom relevant to the entertainment world.

 

For most types of light work in a workshop, an overall coat, also known as a dust coat or warehouse coat is the proper thing to wear. Set building, painting, minor maintenance and repair works in general. Preferably with loose fitting work trousers that allow freedom of movement, NOT tight jeans. Usually blue or grey. If handling or preparing food other than at home, a similar garment but in white is good practice.

[Junior8]

Ir has absolutely nothing to do with dirt, my grandfather worked in a large engineering workshop and wore a white shirt every day coming home with it as clean as when he left in the morning. It is about the right clothes for the job. Trouble is many will not wear the right clothes. Watching idiots drive traction engines in shorts and a tee shirt as if they were on the beach, and getting off the man stand looking like sweeps, makes one go cold. There was a reason for overalls bib and brace or otherwise in many trades which have not disappeared with improvements in safety. It is a great pity that when so much is made of steelies, masks and ear defenders that so little ofetn seems to be made of anything else.

[Deep C]

A word of warning for any clothing worn in an environment in which involves naked flame or hot work IE welding, drilling, grinding. Do not use fabric conditioner as the Fabric Softener builds up on the fibres and reduces the effectiveness of any flame retardant treatment to the point it can negate its effect. it is also known that fabric conditioners can make fabrics flammable.

I work on a preserved steam railway and there have been a couple of incidents within the preservation industry of crew working on the footplate of steam Loco being burnt when there overalls have caught fire, further investigations have concluded that the garments had been washed in fabric conditioners.

• DO NOT use chlorine bleach or liquid non-chlorine bleach
• DO NOT use fabric softeners or starch, they mask FR performance

 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[sunray]

Basically fabric softener is grease, grease is generally flammable...

A word of warning for any clothing worn in an environment in which involves naked flame or hot work IE welding, drilling, grinding. Do not use fabric conditioner as the Fabric Softener builds up on the fibres and reduces the effectiveness of any flame retardant treatment to the point it can negate its effect. it is also known that fabric conditioners can make fabrics flammable.

I work on a preserved steam railway and there have been a couple of incidents within the preservation industry of crew working on the footplate of steam Loco being burnt when there overalls have caught fire, further investigations have concluded that the garments had been washed in fabric conditioners.

• DO NOT use chlorine bleach or liquid non-chlorine bleach
• DO NOT use fabric softeners or starch, they mask FR performance

 

Cheers

Colin

[Junior8]

Sparks from an angle grinder were enough for a very nasty incident like this near here. It was typical too - the guy was usually uber careful but this was just a one minute job - unfortunately Mr Sod was on duty. Edited March 17, 2021 by Junior8

[sunray]

Sparks from an angle grinder were enough for a very nasty incident like this near here. It was typical too - the guy was usually uber careful but this was just a one minute job - unfortunately Mr Sod was on duty.

It's those little jobs that catch us out unfortunately.

 

Back in the summer I needed to cut off the remains of a broken screw in the back of a recess, grinder was the only sensible option. I'd like to say I always wear proper eye sheild [elastic round the head type], gloves and clothing. However the grinder was 'just there' and I did the job wearing glasses, shorts and t-shirt. Cutting took maybe 5 seconds and nothing went wrong but afterwards I swore at myself for being stupid.

I hope the outcome for your incident wasn't too bad.

 

[J Pearce]

just a one minute job

 

I'm sure every one of us has an example of a 'just a quick job' that went wrong, from twisting backs, to dropping something on non-steelied feet, to something far worse.

 

It's those little jobs that you don't plan that are the dangerous ones. Unless you're a total muppet the things that you perceive as dangerous are the ones you'll have planned and taken a breath before (if not paused for a cuppa), the quick get-it-done jobs are the ones that go wrong the most.