Has anyone sussed out how buying from the EU will work?

[ImagineerTom]

And just to really emphasise the key point here- the problem is not what decision a court would make 3 years into litigation (a good barrister can argue night is legally day so one proving that a structure is inherently still safe and this is just a paperwork issue would be a walk in the park) the problem here is that insurance companies still have grey areas which they WILL exploit to at least delay settlement and as we all know the day to day enforcement of regulatory compliance is actually done by local authorities and civil servants who aren’t authorised to take a guess and must act in accordance with the written guidance they have from on high. They aren’t allowed to “guess” and it as at this footsoldier level that decisions to cancel events and dump suppliers will be taken, not in the Supreme Court.

 

Whilst this thread has come to focus on tents in pretty sure this applies to most sectors of theatre world - the “deal” has very specific and tightly defined definitions of what professional qualifications and certifications are respected. If you previously operated under any EU regulatory / testing / certification program or rely on documents prepared by a “professional” with an eu qualification then unless it is specifically and explicitly referenced in the uk withdrawal bill or “the deal” then you’re in the same limbo as we are. For example swaiths of the museum and academic sector are concerned at the moment because the wording used limits / prevents all sorts of practices used on a day to day level in their sector.

 

In a few years will there be enough court cases / eu declarations to smooth over the cracks so that something approaching normal operations -yes, but before then we are in for a lot of grey areas, lots of battles with insurance & local enforcement officers as everyone tries to navigate their way through the situation.

[David Ripley]

To put this thread back to where it started, it appears EU online retailers are giving up the UK as they now have to take the VAT due in the UK and then send it here, so probably not worth given the agro involved

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721BBC News

Edited January 4, 2021 by David Ripley

[bigclive]

For a while HMRC was twisting eBay's arm to block Chinese sellers who didn't do it their way. When you tried buying something you would get a message saying that HMRC had blocked that seller from selling to the UK.

 

The Chinese sites responded by setting up regular new accounts, usually with lower prices to get their feedback rating up, and would then continue trading as before.

 

I don't really see the Chinese sellers being too bothered by HMRC's empty threats. They'll simple work around them, or charge the VAT and then keep it.

 

At the moment I have suspended all online sales for the foreseeable future. I used to sell quite a lot to the USA, but the Trump-initiated and Royal Mail multiplied American postage charges are now huge and complex to the point that I have to send orders as lots of separate packages to try and make it affordable.

Initially I thought I was just going to have to exclude the USA from sales for a while (which I hate doing as it feels like discrimination) but right now things are so embroiled in red tape and dummy-spitting bureaucratic tantrums that I simply don't want the hassle of selling online right now. Less income for me and less tax for HMRC.

[the kid]

For a while HMRC was twisting eBay's arm to block Chinese sellers who didn't do it their way. When you tried buying something you would get a message saying that HMRC had blocked that seller from selling to the UK.

 

The Chinese sites responded by setting up regular new accounts, usually with lower prices to get their feedback rating up, and would then continue trading as before.

 

I don't really see the Chinese sellers being too bothered by HMRC's empty threats. They'll simple work around them, or charge the VAT and then keep it.

 

 

 

Interesting you say about Chinese sellers, Here we have a tax added to anything from a shop thats not EU. It's about £7.50, ABSOLUTLY not designed to curb the massive rise of wish/ali express etc etc. The Swedish postal service have made an agreement with wish about items, exactly how it works im not sure. https://www.postnord.se/ta-emot/hamta/fran-annat-land-import/faq-om-avtalet-med-wish

 

 

What I am aware of is already private packages coming this way have been hit with taxes, and a few people have had packages returned kindly by DHL after taking their money as DHL had a stop on EU-UK shipping after the agreement

[Simon Lewis]

Thanks all for discussing this topic (and for some lovely diversions!). The issues wrt consumer purchases (Customs Duties over £390, VAT collected by seller under £135 and by delivery firm plus fee and any VAT due over £135) seems relatively straightforward.

 

I'm still looking through the guidance on purchasing stuff as a VAT registered business. However, given the issues with couriers at the moment, I'm holding back from placing any orders until things have settled down and the procedure is clear and working...

[bigclive]

I'm holding back from placing any orders until things have settled down and the procedure is clear and working...

 

Given the incompetent way that this has been implemented in the first place, I wouldn't hold my breath about that being soon.

 

Hopefully it's not going to illicit a knee jerk reaction against the UK by other countries doing the same thing.

[paulears]

Thomann in Germany have this information.

 

Special Rules for our UK Customers

With the new trade agreement between the EU and the UK, new regulations have been applied to all commercial transactions between the two distinct markets.

 

As of 01.01.2021 all current prices shown on our UK website do not include VAT 20% (Value Added Tax).

 

According to the new regulations, the VAT (20%) and possible additional handling fees will have to be paid to the courier upon delivery with the only exception being special VAT-free zones (e.g Channel Islands). Currently, we are unable to advise what the handling fee charged by the courier for each order will be. For further information, we advise that you check the costs and procedures in advance with the courier locally.

 

VAT will be added and charged by Thomann GmbH after processing an order only if the net value of the items is equal or less than 135.00 GBP or if delivery will be to Northern Ireland. In these cases, no additional fee will have to be paid upon delivery.

 

For items exceeding 31 kilos, or heavy goods such as PA equipment, pianos, etc., we have to employ the services of a heavy haulage company. As these new regulations only came into effect a few days before the end of the transition period, delivery by this method of transport to the UK is currently not possible. Further information will be included in our order confirmation email.

Please be assured that with more than 20 years of close cooperation with our UK customers, it is our priority to find new solutions that will allow us to provide door-to-door online prices as soon as possible.

[Stuart91]

Thomann in Germany have this information.

 

Thomann have also been running Facebook ads quoting the ex-VAT prices. (The example I saw had a MiniATEM switcher at £222)

 

I suspect this might backfire when customers discover that they have to pay VAT + handling to the courier before they receive their items.

[paulears]

In the past few months, handling charges have been very variable - Most expensive was a Fedex one at £20, and cheapest - another Fedex one where they didn't charge anything. Most of my imported items don't attract duty - but a few are misidentified with wrong codes and then it's 4% - it can be very variable and totally unpredictable. I've had two deliveries from one courier that had paperwork on them relating to duty and VAT and have been charged nothing ....... yet. I complained in November to TNT about one shipment. Got the reply yesterday!

[d_korman]

I've just received a spare part for a watch from Germany, valued at €91.00 + €4.95 shipping. It was sent via Deutsche Post and Royal Mail and there were no additional charges levied - it just dropped through my letterbox this morning.

 

I was expecting the "An item is being held at the sorting office because there is VAT to pay on it" slip and to have to go pay the VAT to get the packet. The invoice stated "VAT Shifted", so I'm guessing there might be a value below which HMRC aren't collecting the VAT (yet?).

[ImagineerTom]

one of the thresholds is value over/under £135.

[d_korman]

one of the thresholds is value over/under £135.

 

Thanks, useful to know.

[Jivemaster]

I've just found a USA shop I want to use, but they don't send to the UK because of "collecting VAT issues".

[paulears]

To many firms are using the vat change in europe for transaction that have nothing to do with the EU. The new system that is causing foreign countries to collect vat for us there is silly. The current collection and payment system works fine. It’s the damn consumer folk who hate additions they weren’t expecting who drove it!

[ImagineerTom]

The change isn’t just for UK EU trade, the system has been changed so that ALL countries have to (or will have to by the end of this year) follow the new; frankly mad, system.