Antiviral fog could get concerts and theatres going again?

[Brian]

It's interesting, and maybe an indication of how venues ought to be thinking, that HSE are very active on the subject of ventilation and air conditioning at the moment.

 

One only has to look at the outbreaks in meat processing plants to see the importance.

[Jivemaster]

The hospitality industry uses Ozone generators to clean up rooms that smell of tobacco or weed smoke. In the USA if you smoke in a non-smoking room they simply take another $250 off your card for "cleaning".

 

The ozone generate is as toxic the humans as to other biochem entities (smells viruses etc) so hotel rooms are ozonised in the morning and vented in the afternoon. Hundreds of ozoniser sales sites exist on the www.

 

Biocidal UV kills bio and harms skin and eyes. it's best placed inside air handling plenums and ducts with just a fluorescent translucent plastic insert to show that the lamp is working.

[adam2]

It's interesting, and maybe an indication of how venues ought to be thinking, that HSE are very active on the subject of ventilation and air conditioning at the moment.

 

One only has to look at the outbreaks in meat processing plants to see the importance.

 

Yes, I expect better standards of ventilation to be expected in all but the smallest of public spaces. Decades ago, William Sugg and company made a dedicated gas fired hot air heater for smaller theatres, cinemas and the like. This was designed to supply 100% filtered fresh air, heated as needed, to all public areas. Use of these units was said to greatly improve public health as it ensured fresh air. The odd large or grand house was fitted with one of these. This resulted in the development of the "halcyon" forced hot air heater for the d0m3stic market.

 

Digressing briefly to meat processing plants, these often have almost no fresh air so as to economise of refrigeration costs. Many such facilities misuse walk in fridges as work spaces.

 

 

 

[Stuart91]

Digressing briefly to meat processing plants, these often have almost no fresh air so as to economise of refrigeration costs.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if some leisure facilities have similar arrangements (e.g. an ice rink and swimming pool side by side, with a heat exchange between the two).

 

That might be unhelpful as they attempt to reopen.

[kerry davies]

Is this the right time for theatres to think about Heating and Ventilation in a serious way? My council is building energy neutral flats using air source heat pumps as a combined heating and air conditioning system. If theatres need air filtration then going down that path might be the most long-term cost-effective means of doing so. Sooner or later the normal central heating systems will all have to be replaced with fossil fuel free systems anyway so why not combine it all?

 

I may be way off beam but theremote sound mixing topic suggests it is worth considering.

Edited June 26, 2020 by kerry davies

[Jivemaster]

Currently, I suspect that owners and managers are ONLY interested in becoming open and profitable again. There must be a lot of anxious people wondering whether to reopen and when to reopen or whether to bail out demolish, and build retail and residential units.

 

After the pandemic peak is over there will be a right time in the audience members mind, and a right time in the theatre (all performance spaces) management to reopen with only acceptable risks.

Judging the right time and being ready to reopen and having tickets sold is the big problem for today. What's the value of going zero energy (et al) and then going bust because the theatre didn't open.

 

One of the big unknowns at the moment is the extent of long-term to permanent effects of the virus. It's now certain that some people get life altering/threatening, probably permanent, side effects after infection. If this affects a person critical to any venue then big changes could happen, especially if it's the money! Yes a friend and colleague had the virus and has now been diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis, which may likely be permanent, permanently disabling and ultimately fatal. Prior to this he was a tall slim man fit enough to walk three miles to work daily.

[musht]

quote name='kerry davies'

 

Is this the right time for theatres to think about Heating and Ventilation in a serious way?

 

Theatres have always treated HVAC in a serious way, from sliding roofs and sunburners, as Adam2 mentioned, to air-conditioned being a head line item on the poster`s. Comfortable air is as much of the theatre experience as dimming houselights.

 

https://williamsugghistory.co.uk/?page_id=67

 

Ozone generators were a feature of 30`s super cinema air systems.

 

http://www.villagehallcinemas.co.uk/%23cinema/cinephoto/odeon_leicester_sq_cut_away.htm

 

>>My council is building energy neutral flats using air source heat pumps as a combined heating and air conditioning system.

 

Air source heat pumps are now making it to dom35t1c market, reasonable bet the residential insulation is still sub optimal, insulation not a trending green thing, its how a lot of commercial buildings are already heated , cooled and ventilated, Centrepoint tower block was centre of all sorts of conspiracy rumours because it was one of the first sealed office blocks, no opening windows,

 

>.If theatres need air filtration then going down that path might be the most long-term cost-effective means of doing so.

 

They already do, being windowless boxes they have to, HVAC is a service you didn`t know existed until they put something where you had wanted to ;-)

 

>Sooner or later the normal central heating systems will all have to be replaced with fossil fuel free systems anyway so why not combine it all?

 

In large buildings its been replaced with er, gas, Combined Cycle Gas Turbines burning Qatari gas running generators to back up everyone on those cold, cloudy, still days...

 

Air quality is liable to be condsiderably lower on your trip to the theatre, by bus , train , or in a pressurised tube full of re-cycling air by plane.

[Stuart91]

Air quality is liable to be condsiderably lower on your trip to the theatre, by bus , train , or in a pressurised tube full of re-cycling air by plane.

 

This was one of the key points that was being made at the start of the pandemic - "we'll close venues when they close public transport" because the risks are so much higher, especially on services like the London tube with very high density and limited air handling capability.

 

Irrespective of policy / restrictions, the challenge may be convincing punters that they're safe in a theatre. Especially since many regular patrons are older and hence more vulnerable.

[ImagineerTom]

It scares me that the recent cross-venue survey about opening theatres suggests that 75% of theatre attendees are 50+ (ie at risk group) - the venues that will thrive after this are the ones who work on unlocking the younger demographics not the ones that focus on their existing market who (by definition) will be the last people who can safely spend 3 hours in a 100 yr old building breathing in strangers air

[Stuart91]

It scares me that the recent cross-venue survey about opening theatres suggests that 75% of theatre attendees are 50+ (ie at risk group)

 

One other worry is that a lot of people are introduced to live theatre by older relatives - classic example being grandparents taking kids to panto. It might take some creative solutions to ensure the next generation of theatregoers is recruited.

[Brian]

...classic example being grandparents taking kids to panto. It might take some creative solutions to ensure the next generation of theatregoers is recruited.

 

 

I don't know about other smaller regional theatres but my local one gets something like 70% of its annual income from Panto season.

 

If solutions aren't found by the autumn I can see a lot of venues going to the wall at the end of this year.

[ImagineerTom]

Some grandparents buy tickets for panto but overall the stats are that parents buy the majority of panto tickets - there’s strong cross venue data that they buy them just after spending time with their kids as a way to placate themselves - ie Christmas Day evening there’s a big spike in sales, after October half term there’s a spike in sales all because parents dread being stuck in the house with their kids :-p

[Stuart91]

after October half term there’s a spike in sales all because parents dread being stuck in the house with their kids :-p

 

I wonder how lockdown will affect that? :** laughs out loud **:

[sandall]

It scares me that the recent cross-venue survey about opening theatres suggests that 75% of theatre attendees are 50+ (ie at risk group)

As social-distancing & wearing of masks (which was meant to protect the vulnerable) by the young & middle-aged went totally out of the window last weekend it's hard to see how places like theatres can ever be safe for us oldies until there's a 100%-proven vaccine & we've been given it.

[Jivemaster]

There are about 15 vaccination research projects in prestigious research teams at the moment but though first stage trials have started in some cases the very earliest anyone hopes to see a vaccine is late 2020 more likely summer 2021. Vaccination will not be available to all til 2021 or later. There will still be enough antivaxers to have a freeflowing disease population, plus a number of people are actually allergic to the protein base -my old manager had to be vaccinated inside A&E because he would have massive alergic reaction to the injection base.

 

The current best plan is to properly wear a plain surgical mask. If all people are wearing masks the probability of passing on an infection falls to about 5% of the unmasked rate. Currently plain surgical masks are about £1 each.