Thirdtap Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 'LoI am wondering if safety chains on lanterns are still legal or have they been outlawed under new laws & guidelines (LOLER and or PUWER)?I am looking to change the compainie's hire stock to safety bonds and was just wondering if there was any written material which would support me spending money? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I don't know what the current official line is on this point (there seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions about at the moment), but from what I can make out the general guide is that chains are still acceptable in instances where they already exist on a piece of equipment, but any new secondary suspensions purchased/installed should be of the wire bond kind, not chain. Don't assume that this is actually correct, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I believe that safety bonds have to carry certificates these days. "Traditional" safety chains aren't certificated and therefore illegal. I think there's also an issue with the traditional spring clip and the way it can open up rather suddenly under a shock load. Carabiners with a screw gate are a better alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 From a hire company point of view we changed all our secondary supports over to bonds last year. Although, ( Off the record) the manufacturers say a standard chain is actually stronger than a 10kg bond, the weakest point of bond and chain is the clip and a standard chain and bond use the same clip!........ Anyone still using chains should be able to use them however as there is no statement from the HSE saying otherwise??? ( any comments on this welcome) For the smaller venue where the equipment list consists of sub kilowatt profiles and fresnels........ I cannot see any problem changing over to bonds slowly, say when you lose a chain... replace it with a bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I think the phrase "reasonably practicable" counts here. It's probably not reasonably practicable to throw away 300+ safety chains all at once and buy a whole set of new ones. But it is reasonable to never buy a normal chain again, and buy up bonds as you can afford it. PS: The test that a certain wire rope company uses for safety bonds is actually a test for the safety bond attachment point on a lantern, not a test for the bond itself. But it would seem stupid to have different strength criteria for the bond and the attachment point, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I would agree with you Bryon....... a safety chain is better than no secaondary means at all. SO the lesson here......... There is NO EXCUSE for failing to attach a safety???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andystone Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I did some research on this earlier in the year as we had a customer complain that we had quoted safety chains and we should be quoting bonds. I spoke to the PLASA safety officer and basically there are no regulations that cover secondary suspension. The full results of our findings are on the support section of our web site at http://stagetec.co.uk/php/index.php?sectio...3&contentid=639 Andy Stagetec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Just out of interest, I've been working in the business for over 20 years and have never known anything fall onto its safety chain/bond. I've spoken to various others about this and have yet to meet someone who has. I'm sure there are examples out there, and I'm certainly not saying that secondary suspension doesn't matter, but how often are these things actually used "in anger"? The humble hook clamp has an enviable safety record! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I'm certainly not saying that secondary suspension doesn't matter, but how often are these things actually used "in anger"? The humble hook clamp has an enviable safety record!We have been working in this business for about as long as each other... I have only seen it happen once....... but it only takes one lantern to fall onto someones head......... and DEAD! There is more of a problem with barndoors however, I had a VERY close shave with a P243 barndoor falling within a couple of inches from my head once (It would have certainly killed me if it had been a few inches to the left) so secondary means, or retention screw, should be fitted to barndoors also??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeggie Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 too true - the only practical time that the g clamp would come off is if there was a shock load applied that could strip the thread of the bolt and then pull the yoke away. - not a regular occurence. and to prove the chain's safety, an emergency way of rigging a lamp is to wrap a few chains around the bar and yoke and then rig another loose at the normal point, thus making a secondary support. this will hold an average bodyweight easily and will only start to give when the mass of five people is applied - that has to be one HEAVY mother of a lantern to provide that force! bye - andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I thought the most common way of using a safety in anger was to forget to do up the hookclamp, then fly a bit of scenery up past the bar. I can imagine that that has happened quite a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I imagine you're right. But neither of us has ever met anyone who's done it so what does that say? technicians are better at their job than we think?!!! In response to Paul's point about barndoors, the Marlowe Theatre in Canterbury do just that and have a separate chain for the doors. Now there's something I've seen a couple of times when flying out a nearby bar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Edwards Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 On a similar, but slightly different track, has anyone managed to find a way of sucessfully attaching a safety bond to a set of barndoors, without limiting the rotation? If any one can help I'd be grateful as its an item that certainly concerns me. Any ideas? Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Hi Bloke, If you have a look at my rant of a few days ago I was at an amuter venue when I saw it happen - to recap the dance floor had quietend down as some of the youngsters had just finished an improntu breakdance session I was brought in to video the evening and a boly missed me by about 6" - it was a 2" long M10 bolt and I looked up and saw the light wobbling alarmingly above my head saved from hitting me by it's safety chain. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 On a similar, but slightly different track, has anyone managed to find a way of sucessfully attaching a safety bond to a set of barndoors, without limiting the rotation? If any one can help I'd be grateful as its an item that certainly concerns me. Any ideas? GlynYou can often attach the safety bond to the non-rotating part of the barn-door. The big problem lanterns were the likes of the 123, 743 and 243 where you could completely miss the bottom gel/barndoor runner. However I've still see P123 barndoors where the rotating circular bit with the doors attached has come out of the square bit attached to the lantern! Another discussion might be whether the safety bond should be attached to the body of the lantern or to the yoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.