Proposed EU Regulations That Would Ban All Theatrical Fixtures - Not J

[timsabre]

I don't know if folk have seen this on the "Save Tungsten Campaign" FB page...

 

https://www.facebook.com/SaveTungsten/posts/784758751712990

 

The time has come, once again, when we feel we must rally together as the threat to tungsten has never been so great due to a draft new EU regulation. The current lamp ban has an overall exemption for theatrical lighting. The new draft does not have this. The EU are trying to establish measurable technical specifications for exempt lamps rather than application based exemptions, as they see this as a potential for loopholes. The proposed new regulation will effectively ban all Tungsten Halogen lamps from September 2020 with the exception of R7 linear lamps due to the extensive installed base and no practical LED lamp replacement product.

[alistermorton]

Yes, I saw it yesterday. I wonder if it's time to start stockpiling all those T series lamps while making a gradual transition to LED.

 

OTOH, will we implement such a ban after 2019?

[timsabre]

Yes, I saw it yesterday. I wonder if it's time to start stockpiling all those T series lamps while making a gradual transition to LED.

OTOH, will we implement such a ban after 2019?

 

Even if we don't, would manufacturers consider it viable to continue making lamps just for the UK theatre market? Would EU manufacturers like Philips even be allowed to make them in the EU for export?

[sandall]

Without breaking the bank it's hard to find anything dimmable above 50W-equivalent that isn't tungsten-based.

[Ken Coker]

I don't quite see what the issue is. Are we seriously suggesting that hanging up slightly inefficient electric fires to make "art" is somehow ethical?

 

 

KC

 

(Yes, I have a diesel car, eat meat, wear leather shoes....and all the other bad things..)

[sunray]

I thought I was being a stick in the mud, liking real lamps. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[musht]

Without breaking the bank it's hard to find anything dimmable above 50W-equivalent that isn't tungsten-based.

It`s no problem , simply replace your rig with a pile of these ;-)

 

 

Seriously R7s survive on no equivalent.....

 

Somrthing not right with this picture, probably colour shift from the LED lighting ;-)

[timsabre]

That's it, they even have barn doors!

 

(Done plenty of shows with those... at least one lamp per fixture would always need replacing after every slight movement of the fixture)

[musht]

I don't quite see what the issue is. Are we seriously suggesting that hanging up slightly inefficient electric fires to make "art" is somehow ethical?

 

 

KC

 

(Yes, I have a diesel car, eat meat, wear leather shoes....and all the other bad things..)

 

Refer you to the spectral power distribution curves in a.n. other topic, eskimos may have many words for snow, nothing compared on a lighting salesman`s vocabularly for white.

 

For the full tin foil hat explanation , where borrowed image link from

 

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/10/23/near-infrared-led-lighting.aspx

[adam2]

I have previously suggested that tungsten filament lamps were about to go the way of carbon arcs, gas lighting and oil lamps. This day is now approaching.

 

I doubt that it will have much of an impact until about 2025, such bans generally apply to manufacture or import and not to sale. With a bit of stockpiling at each stage of the supply chain, the lamps should still be available for several years after the ban.

 

I can still buy "banned" 150 watt GLS lamps without problems.

 

With growing concerns about both the environment, and about potential lack of UK electrical generating capacity, the time is ripe to consider energy efficient lighting. in theatres and elsewhere.

 

For those diehards who insist on tungsten, better start stockpiling ! I suspect that the more common types of halogen theatre lamp may still be available from fleabay for a long while, but perhaps at increasing prices and of declining quality, and not every type.

 

 

 

[timsabre]

With growing concerns about both the environment, and about potential lack of UK electrical generating capacity, the time is ripe to consider energy efficient lighting. in theatres and elsewhere.

For those diehards who insist on tungsten, better start stockpiling !

 

The problem is, there is no alternative at a comparable price, it's not just diehards who prefer the tungsten look. Small theatres and drama groups just can't afford to go out and replace all their kit with LED fixtures at 2 or 3x the price. And most of the cheaper white LED stuff has a poor light quality.

[adam2]

A few figures to ponder.

 

Consider a theatre lantern that is lit for only 100 hours a year, as might be the case in a little used community theatre. 6 spare lamps should last for 20 or 30 years or even longer after the ban, perhaps until 2050 or beyond. Not worth worrying about.

 

Now consider a 1KW lantern lit for 1,000 hours a year in a busy venue. Over the year that will cost about £200 in electricity and perhaps another £40 for replacement lamps and say £10 for gel. £250 a year running costs would soon pay for a replacement LED lantern that costs perhaps £30 a year for electricity with zero expenditure on lamps and gel.

 

 

 

 

 

[timsabre]

A few figures to ponder.

Consider a theatre lantern that is lit for only 100 hours a year, as might be the case in a little used community theatre. 6 spare lamps should last for 20 or 30 years or even longer after the ban, perhaps until 2050 or beyond. Not worth worrying about.

Now consider a 1KW lantern lit for 1,000 hours a year in a busy venue. Over the year that will cost about £200 in electricity and perhaps another £40 for replacement lamps and say £10 for gel. £250 a year running costs would soon pay for a replacement LED lantern that costs perhaps £30 a year for electricity with zero expenditure on lamps and gel.

 

I'm not sure I agree with you here... for your first example, most small group lighting gets bashed around as it gets rigged and derigged, you go through more lamps than that in my experience. But yes, better get stockpiling spare lamps.

 

For the second, leaving the gel out of it and just replacing with a white LED fresnel, say an Elation DW as one of the lower end reasonable quality options, that's £1500 so 6 year payback on running costs, but you have to find the money upfront which is a budget killer for most venues.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the day is getting ever closer when LED will be everywhere in theatre, but it is not cheap or good enough yet to force everyone to swap over.

[sandall]

Without breaking the bank it's hard to find anything dimmable above 50W-equivalent that isn't tungsten-based.

It`s no problem , simply replace your rig with a pile of these ;-)

 

Looks a bit difficult to get into a BC lamp-holder :(

[StuartS]

I have also been sceptical about the arguments against tungsten lamps. Whenever a space needs heating, the heat from tungsten lamps need not be considered wasted, so if you are doing a ‘dimmer room log’, make sure you offset your tungsten energy ‘wastage’ against how much it reduces your heating bills. Also consider how much energy is saved when your audience switch off their home lights when they leave to come to your show.