School hall audio - the impossible dream

[back_ache]

Sometimes I hate being a technician, I was at my (primary) schools pta meeting last night where the teachers wanted an open-ended budget to "get a new microphone system"

 

Now the system they have a they have at moment generally is okay, a small format mixer and separate amp in a wall mounted metal cabinet wired to four wall mounted XLRs near where they normally perform (using temporary staging) and have their assemblies

 

The bad points are four randomly placed wall-mounted budget-brand 1x10" plastic cabs, a lack of knowledge and a rats-nest of unloved microphones and cables

 

What they want to do now is have clear, easy to use system, with high gain before feedback, that can be used for "everything" (announcements, assemblies and performances mainly)

 

Now as a technician I know this is "the impossible dream", however as its my kids school for the next few years I can't turn my back on them.

 

My (random) thoughts so far

 

* is to help them choose a company that will truly engage with the problem on an ongoing basis (rather than "install and run")

* replace the plastic cabs with a modern column speaker(s) to increase directionality

* see if I could get the schools only technician (just doing IT at moment and shared between two schools) to want to engage with the issue and get actively involved in setting the system up for the various events and making everything is stowed away nicely and maintained

 

 

 

We are not afraid of spending money, just wanting to make sure it's spent right, also don't want to buy a nice set of mics, stands, cables, di's etc just for them to get trashed within months and then moaned about

 

What have your experiences been in helping schools help themselves?

[sleah]

From what you've described, it seems like the main priority is sorting out the speakers.

If the system is mostly for speech, then no need to go mad on a top end expensive system, as it may be wasted.

Obviously without seeing the finer details of the hall layout, construction and mix of hard/soft surfaces, it's difficult for anyone to make specific recommendations.

But as a basic guide, I would say some mid-range speakers, 10" or 12" with careful thought put in to placement to give best clarity at the same time as max. gain before FB. There will always be a slight compromise on that one <_<

 

For the mics/cables, how about a mic storage case where you drop the mics in to individually cut out foam 'pockets'? At least they will be offered some protection while in storage.

There is no solution however that can beat user education when it comes to looking after the equipment, cables being one of the biggest challenges! Coil over elbow anyone?

Even someone with aptitude who is willing can get it wrong. :( No easy fix for that....

[ninjadingle]

Speakers - as sleah said.... think about EQ for the room too - if you're only using a small format mixer then control isn't going to be great? Even a cheap 31 band graphic tuned correctly will help no end.

 

Microphones - seriously consider going wireless. If you're working with primary school children the less leads the better I find, and no cables to knit with. Couple that with a nice foam cut out in a rack drawer in the cabinet housing the mixer and amps (and mic receivers) and you'll have a great little system that hopefully teachers will be able to use with a small amount of instruction.

[Shez]

I'd suggest a password protected LMS rather than any kind of graphic that can be fiddled with. You can guarantee that somebody will make wavy patterns on its faders within the first day of use! That'll also give you limiting options to protect the speakers from the inevitable feedback, dropped mics etc.

[paulears]

My questions are simple ones. Who will operate it? The best systems in the world won't help you if it's a free for all. Some schools have wonderful systems, and don't use them because they involve more than one knob.

 

Radios sound wonderful - but they use batteries, and get broken.

 

Budget to purchase and budget to run dan maintain.

 

What does their current system not do - and why? Who looks after it, and how unhappy are they with it? What would a new one do better, and is it more complicated?

 

Many wonderful school plans are scuppered by the person elected to look after it, if they simply do not want the extra workload. That sounds silly, but often isn't. Many great school projects are wicked by an overworked and under appreciated technician, who sees the idea as just one extra job he or she has to look after.

[Owain]

consider using columns for speech for directionality and gain-before-feedback, and separate 'disco' speakers for recorded music playback.

 

Or just teach the little darlings to project / sit still and listen, as appropriate.

 

 

[S&L]

IF this were any other complex, non retail, tech installation, then no one would dispute the need for a maintenance contract or for an in house team. It strikes me that as school expectations now rise and sound and lights are the sorts of things they want to address (much different than our own childhoods in school) then a similar in house person or maintenance contract is necessary. 10 years from now most schools will have been through the learning curve and understand that they need tech support of sound and lights.... I hope. Right now, appreciation of the complexity with what they are dealing with varies. I would be reluctant to discuss any option that didn't have some mechanism for ongoing support and whether that's staff or sub contract wages, it has a price tag.

[ojc123]

IF this were any other complex, non retail, tech installation, then no one would dispute the need for a maintenance contract or for an in house team. ... ... I would be reluctant to discuss any option that didn't have some mechanism for ongoing support and whether that's staff or sub contract wages, it has a price tag.

Couldn't agree more.

 

I give the system in the school I work in a month after I leave before it's unusable unless I am replaced by a technical person.

[Simon Lewis]

erm... I'm probably a little out of touch here, but how many junior schools have a dedicated AV technician? Or am I reading the OP's comments incorrectly? He was at a PTA meeting discussing the needs for a new system....

[Ynot]

I feel your pain, bachache (pun intended!)

 

My wife is a primary school teacher and the conversation you describe is VERY familiar!

They recently 'invested' in a low to medium quality domestic type stereo unit and acquired from somewhere a single radio mic but couldn't get it to work at all. And they NEEDED it for the next bingo night, so muggins went in to take a look, armed with a couple of cable options.

As expected the output of the mic RX was nowhere near high enough to get any decent level through the RCA inputs on the stereo, so they ended up borrowing a small guitar amp for the night - which was ALMOST up to the job of making the caller heard above the hubbub.

 

The question came as "How much would it be to get new mics in...?

After I explained exactly what sort of kit they'd actually need to do the job properly (and again, nothing mega high budget or complexity) the blank looks said it all.

 

Of course the other problem, especially with primary schools, is that their halls are pretty much all going to be square boxes with VERY hard walls, floors and ceilings so reverberative feedback heaven!!

[ojc123]

erm... I'm probably a little out of touch here, but how many junior schools have a dedicated AV technician? Or am I reading the OP's comments incorrectly? He was at a PTA meeting discussing the needs for a new system....

I guess it wouldn't need to be a dedicated person. It does have to be part of someone's job though. That someone needs to be technically minded and able to communicate what can and can't be done to teachers. That is the hardest part of my job.

[dbuckley]

Our local school has a small system in the "general purpose hall", ie its a gym with bleachers, American style. The sound system is 2 x wired mics, a wireless mic, a small desk (a Samson I think, from memory), a QSC amp, and four Fender 1x12+horn disco boxes attached to the wall, in two pairs. Its been installed for at least a dozen years, and is used most days of the week. The kit is in a cupboard in the hall, and the mics on stands are just dragged out to wherever needed. There is also an aging CD player.

 

On the wall in said cupboard is a bit of paper with a picture of something that looks like the desk, and what settings each of the knobs need to make it work, and what plugs to where. Everyone knows that if the PA doesn't work then someone's had a play, and to just copy the settings from the paper to the desk and it will work. Probably because the kids have been in at lunchtime and plugged in an iPod or something and forgotten to return the controls to normality. The cupboard is not locked, and in Kiwi schools we kinda get the kids to be responsible for stuff.

 

So I cant see why the OPs existing system with a bit of TLC cant be made to do the job.

[Jivemaster]

As DBuckley's post. Take the kit you have repair or replace broken bits (leads etc) then take some pictures of how it should be set up for some functions. Have the pictures laminated and fixed to the cabinet so that the teachers can reset it when they were not the last user.

 

No amount of cash will sort out a high level stock of expensive mics (etc) if there isn't the knowledge of how to do it. Why install a digital mixer and buy rifle, boundary, overhead and hand held mics with cables and wireless packs if they can't manage to run a hand held mic on a cable into an amp.

 

Have you ever heard children doing "quiet" - think jet turbine noise levels! 1/ you don't beat it by being louder

[Dave m]

many primaries can and should do with a basic system made by Coomber.

 

They are bloody expensive for what they are, but tend to be idiot proof.

 

Nobody is going to do "Les Miz" on one but no point in a flash system that a teacher can't operate under pressure.

[back_ache]

I'll try by best to answer these

 

* I am a member of the schools PTA that fund a lot of their requests, I got involved (with the PTA) to try and help the school make better technical decisions and to try and prevent the PTA blowing themselves up at fundraisers with their creative cabling.

* though they have some coomber stuff around, the kit in this case it is low-medium range kit

* I went to see it today at an event and the speakers are low-end plastic boxes with a 10" driver and piezo in a horn, the cabinets are mounted hard in each of the four corners and their output seemed to be mainly muddy-mids.

 

 

 

It sounds like the solution now should be

 

* better speakers, better placed

* a locked-down LMS

* a kit of microphones, di's, stands and cables in some nice storage with the understanding we'll have to replace them all at least once every couple of years as they get inevitably trashed