Envoy Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hello Everyone, I'm Interested in members opinion toward the future of LCD/DLP projection versus LED displays.Does anyone see conventional projection becoming obsolete? Thank you. JRB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 We are providing more and more LED for our clients, but it doesn't work in every situation projection would and vice versa, so neither will replace the other. Smaller Pixel pitch is getting more affordable every year, so more indoor screen is appearing on shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It'll be a long while before the LED screen pitch is small enough to appear seamless for medium-scale (500-1000 seat) theatres. And then, of course, the whole weight/cabling issue. Projection isn't going away any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hello Everyone, I'm Interested in members opinion toward the future of LCD/DLP projection versus LED displays.Does anyone see conventional projection becoming obsolete? Thank you. JRB Right now no. We just purchased a bunch of Christie projectors to cover a range of events and screen sizes. In the 6 weeks after Christmas we have either multi "normal" screen events with 4-10 screens at 8m widescreen, or a large scale 20x3m screen. We built a 20mx3m LED screen a few months ago that took almost 24 hours from truss to image (we did have issues on site but even so) The weight was knocking on 2.5t and we had a tonne(in volume) of cases and cables. Same job we had 10 screens and projectors, possibly same number of cases but smaller, lighter, rigged and dealt with in a day. To cover the same projection with LED we would have had well over half a truck of kit and we would not of had any gain at all. + I dont have to go through all the panels post event, until we switched LED panel we were running on a 30-50% panel with pixel error after transit, and check the cases for equipment. "is the projector in the case?" yes"and the power cable?"yes"great!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empyfree Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It'll be a long while before the LED screen pitch is small enough to appear seamless for medium-scale (500-1000 seat) theatres. And then, of course, the whole weight/cabling issue. Projection isn't going away any time soon. Fully agree on the weight issues, but the pixel pitch is good enough now. We've got stacks of 5mm and the image is stunning when you're only a few metres back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It'll be a long while before the LED screen pitch is small enough to appear seamless for medium-scale (500-1000 seat) theatres. Really? 2.5mm pitch looks stunning at 1.5m - 2m away. we installed 100 panels as a "video" set with an E2 setup in a small hotel conference room a month back and it looked great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Will conventional projection become obsolete? No, but it will be used less and less. The resolution in LED is there now - 3.9/3.2/2.5mm will all offer a great image within 2-4m of viewing distance, that means that you can swap projection for LED on a lot of work. Corporate show here there's a 1' dip for set uplighting, 8' stage, then 4' walkway? 3.9mm will work. Large screen on the rear of a 6m stage and then 2m walkway? 6mm pitch will work, 3.9mm will look better. The cost of entry has dropped. 20sqm of 3.9mm doesn't cost much more than a pair of 20k projectors. Power requirements have dropped - 7m x 2.7m of 6mm LED at 10% brightness will require less than 16A. Rigging has improved - we had that 7m x 2.7m ground supported screen built, cabled and running in under 2 hours with myself and another tech. We also recently put up a 14.4m x 4.5m screen of 6mm for client in the ACC Liverpool, and our LED tech and 4 locals had the screen built and operational in 4 hours - rigged weight came in all up at about 1650kg, but that's not horrifically heavy. But again material advancements mean that the weight is dropping too as products evolve. We stock projection to 20,000 Lumens and LED, but the last year and a bit has been all about the LED - it's been the best purchase for the business we've made, now stocking 25sqm of 3.9mm, 47sqm of 6mm Indoor/Outdoor, and I'd reckon we'll be adding 2.5mm to stock within the next 12 months. Our investment plans/thoughts don't really include purchasing any projection over 4000 lumens for small meeting type use, rather supporting the LED side of the business, as I think that's the way the market is going. There will still be projects where projection fits, such as when there isn't rigging capacity available, but I think the overall cost/benefit of LED will mean that projection is used in fewer projects over the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envoy Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 We are providing more and more LED for our clients, but it doesn't work in every situation projection would and vice versa, so neither will replace the other. Smaller Pixel pitch is getting more affordable every year, so more indoor screen is appearing on shows. It'll be a long while before the LED screen pitch is small enough to appear seamless for medium-scale (500-1000 seat) theatres. And then, of course, the whole weight/cabling issue. Projection isn't going away any time soon. Thank you, all, for the useful suggestions. We are providing more and more LED for our clients, but it doesn't work in every situation projection would and vice versa, so neither will replace the other. Smaller Pixel pitch is getting more affordable every year, so more indoor screen is appearing on shows. Thank you It'll be a long while before the LED screen pitch is small enough to appear seamless for medium-scale (500-1000 seat) theatres. And then, of course, the whole weight/cabling issue. Projection isn't going away any time soon. Will conventional projection become obsolete? ****Thank you!**** No, but it will be used less and less. The resolution in LED is there now - 3.9/3.2/2.5mm will all offer a great image within 2-4m of viewing distance, that means that you can swap projection for LED on a lot of work. Corporate show here there's a 1' dip for set uplighting, 8' stage, then 4' walkway? 3.9mm will work. Large screen on the rear of a 6m stage and then 2m walkway? 6mm pitch will work, 3.9mm will look better. The cost of entry has dropped. 20sqm of 3.9mm doesn't cost much more than a pair of 20k projectors. Power requirements have dropped - 7m x 2.7m of 6mm LED at 10% brightness will require less than 16A. Rigging has improved - we had that 7m x 2.7m ground supported screen built, cabled and running in under 2 hours with myself and another tech. We also recently put up a 14.4m x 4.5m screen of 6mm for client in the ACC Liverpool, and our LED tech and 4 locals had the screen built and operational in 4 hours - rigged weight came in all up at about 1650kg, but that's not horrifically heavy. But again material advancements mean that the weight is dropping too as products evolve. We stock projection to 20,000 Lumens and LED, but the last year and a bit has been all about the LED - it's been the best purchase for the business we've made, now stocking 25sqm of 3.9mm, 47sqm of 6mm Indoor/Outdoor, and I'd reckon we'll be adding 2.5mm to stock within the next 12 months. Our investment plans/thoughts don't really include purchasing any projection over 4000 lumens for small meeting type use, rather supporting the LED side of the business, as I think that's the way the market is going. There will still be projects where projection fits, such as when there isn't rigging capacity available, but I think the overall cost/benefit of LED will mean that projection is used in fewer projects over the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 There's been quite a few events around here lately involving images projected into buildings/structures. You can't do that with LED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Quite right that it can't do that. But it is already displacing projection on jobs that a year ago were considered projection only. Big wide blends and smaller corperate jobs that we would have done with projection recently, have seen a switch to LED. Brightness, no throw required and quality are all reasons it's gone to LED on those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Quite right that it can't do that. But it is already displacing projection on jobs that a year ago were considered projection only. Big wide blends and smaller corperate jobs that we would have done with projection recently, have seen a switch to LED. Brightness, no throw required and quality are all reasons it's gone to LED on those jobs. exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Almost all the big events we get in my venue (max 1000 capacity pros arch theatre style space) have used LED screens. Since we started paying attention, I don't think we've seen anything above a 6mm screen come through. Our stage is 13m deep, so placed mid stage this is high resolution enough for all the audience. Labour here is cheaper and this can lead to inefficiencies. We are also not getting the top end screens coming here. Still, everyone has been able to build their rental screens in under a day. We recently invested in a 6.25mm pitch, 15m x 5m indoor screen. Previously we were using 8 old projectors to cover this area with rear projection, with unsatisfactory results. 8 projectors were used as this was the only way of getting enough image area with the throw distance available. When we were looking at upgrading, projection didn't really make sense. Using multiple more modern projectors on our existing screen would lead to many of the same alignment issues. Reducing these issues by using the new breed of ultra short throw lenses with powerful projectors was more expensive than an led option, and the nature of the installed screen meant that we would still never get a consistent blend. We don't have video always on, so need a screen that blends into the background. Previously we had a guaze over the screen, which cost us lots of brightness. Now with LED we can get a bright image and a screen which is less visible when switched off, and this means our lighting designer has an easier time. Weight wise, our venue can support the load. Total weight is under 2T. ُThe panels are 0.5m x 1m and weight 11kg. I had some exposure to LED screens 10 years ago, and it is massively lighter and simpler now, cabling is cat 5 and the software (novastar) is fairly intuitive. We bought direct from China and had a bit of a learning curve with the rigging. The maintenance is not complicated and parts can be swapped out without disassembling the screen. More expensive panels have better rigging and easier maintenance. Max power consumption is 30Kw. I think that LED is definitely a useful technology that can be cost effective and deliver a good image. Projection has the edge on weight and setup time / labour required, whereas LED screen can win on space /throw required, brightness and initial investment. For us the switch to LED has fixed a big issue for us. and freed up some space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Envoy asked if projection would become obsolete and the answer is it won't. LED is just another tool we shall use when it suits and not use when it doesn't. Just because technology advances doesn't mean we stop using earlier technology. I mean, I would still use candles and "un-intelligent" incandescents will always have their uses no matter how intelligent or LED develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The other thing about projectors is that they're (relatively) small to transport. Showing a film in a church recently, all the projection equipment, including a 5m wide screen, was collected from the hire co in a smallish car & two of us carried it inside in two trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 How do purchase costs compare? At church we have a 4500lumen, 13yr old projector which when new gave the 48 inch plasma screen 'repeaters' for under balcony areas a run for their money. Now it looks dim despite new lamps etc.It is coming close to replacement. Ideally, I's like to move it on a bit - last time we went 16:9 when most people were still on 4:3. We can probably only afford to upgrade the projector now, though future proofing would be nice. Most playback is from a PC or macbook - mix of projected words, slideshow and video. occassional IMAG for which we run a separate composite line to the projector. Budget kind of depends on what is available. Like for like seems to be abour £1-2k, Realistically, max £5k though So is LED within budget, or should I be looking at HD projectors, 10k lumen or a like for like replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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