Smoke/Haze & fire alarms

[Darkfold]

If you cant isolate the sensor at the panel, then isolate it manually :D What you need is a large yoghurt pot (empty) and lots of gaffa :P (can you guess where this is going....)

Gaffa the pot over the sensor. Sorted. Aint no haze getting through that baby. Wont help you if its a rising temp style sensor unless you pack the pot with insulator foam.

 

 

NB. This is not good practice. Use only if there are manual points nearby and very responsible, sober people to use them. Remove immediately after you finish if you use this method. (WD40 gets the goo off pretty well)

[didj]

ola,

we have had some major issues with smoke alarms at our venue aswell, the vesta system which is beams is uber sensitive. the only thing that hasn`t set them off is a nutron xs hazer. the water based particles create a thin enough spread that dissipates quickly before the sensors detect it. it is an irritation however not alot can be done bar total isolation which we are now doing.

[Brian]

NB. This is not good practice.

That's today biggest understatement. Covering fire detectors is just stupid.

 

What happens when you forget to uncover it?

What happens when an HSE inspector drops by?

What happens to your insurance?

What happens to your PEL?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it is quite possible to install a fire detection system which will work in an entetainment venue, haze or no haze, smoke or no smoke.

[Tomo]

NB. This is not good practice.

That's today biggest understatement. Covering fire detectors is just stupid.

 

What happens when you forget to uncover it?

What happens when an HSE inspector drops by?

What happens to your insurance?

What happens to your PEL?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it is quite possible to install a fire detection system which will work in an entetainment venue, haze or no haze, smoke or no smoke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite. I think that if your local fire officer/HSE guy saw that, he'd blow a gasket.

 

Probably the best method is a combination of heat/rate-of-warming and smoke detectors, with a keyswitch for 'Show' and 'Dark' settings.

 

If you have a chat with your local fire service/council you should be able to bang out an arrangement of such that will satisfy everyone.

 

I'd just like to emphasise:

DO NOT ALTER OR TAMPER WITH FIRE DETECTORS under ANY circumstances, unless you are compentent in such matters and carrying out alterations approved by your local authority and insurance company.

 

Otherwise you are asking for serious trouble, whether or not anything goes wrong!

[Shaun Foster]

Is it not a criminal offence to tamper with firefighting / fire detecting equipment?

[Brian]

I guess a case could be made under either section 2 or 3 of the HSWA.

[Jivemaster]

The venues that install stupidly sensitive detectors should be penalised by loads of crap lightshows but they will never understand. I went into one venue and it said on the wall dont use a vacuum cleaner or an electric heater or a soldering iron as these set off the auto dialing alarm - No-one hires it now and they cant see why???

 

The current trend to fit the most sensitive detectors and have them permanently active is going to kill venues. As is the ever increasing level of maintained emergency lighting, - one party planner I work for has stopped using a major SW1 venue simply because clients complained that they never turned the lights down for the party only the emergency lights were on!

[djw1981]

As I understand it, you can only cover sensors if the sensor zone is deactivated - ie to prevent clogging - but it is the responsibility of the Fire officer / safety officer for the building to ensure that all isolation and covering is reversed before the room is deemed to have a working safety sytstem.

 

e.g.

 

1. Zone "Hall" detectors Isolated

2. Sensors in Zone "Hall" covered

3. Show

4. Sensors in Zone "Hall" uncovered (ensure there is no remaining smoke etc to cause activation!)

5. Zone "Hall" detectors return to normal activation

 

This may have to be done every night if it e.g. a school hall, where the fire detection system is required overnight to meet the safety / insurance regime, especially if there are no other sensors in that area, since activation would not sound the alarm since tgis zone is isolated.

 

So basically it comes down to the safety manager in the venue, and whetehr they have a zoned sysstem or want the hastle of the above procedure.

 

As has been said, it should be thought of when the system is designed early on.

[Darkfold]

I did say it wasnt good practice, just an idea that would probably work :) .

 

*Hides from flame*

 

It's quite handy if you like your toast really well done in the morning and the sensor is uber sensitive...

[bob_lamb]

best way (and quite common practice in theatres) is to have a zoned sensor system so that stage areas can be isolated during performances. the stage needs to have detectors above it because sometimes fires start when there is no one around to raise the alarm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I usually have a contactor fed from the light rig, it operates an I/O module which isolates the smoke detectors while the lighting/smoke is used.

 

HEAT DETECTORS

 

a smoke detector covers 100m2

 

a heat detector covers 50m2

 

twice the detectors = twice the price!!!

[Brian]

twice the detectors = twice the price!!!

Detectors are about £15, say around £100 by the time they are installed.

 

How much does a false alarm cost?

 

How much does a human life cost?

[mac.calder]

I SM'ed in a venue with a really nice isolation system a year ago - it was relatively new. Up in the bio box was a fire control board. On the SM desk was a small pannel with a number of lights/buttons. Upon start of show, the SM gets up, inserts the key into a key lock and switches it to "SHOW" mode. Keys are locked into the board. (ensuring you return the system to its normal mode of operation)

 

SM's desk pannel lights all go green for 3 seconds, then go dark.

 

Should a suspected fire 'appear', a button on the pannel lights up, indicating the location, so someone can be sent to examine. All area's were routed through the board, even the foyer (errant smoke through the vents etc). If the button is not pressed in 60s (Stand Down button)(IIRC) the fire brigade was automatically called and the fire curtain lowered. In show mode, the evacuation warnings did not get broadcast either, it was up to the SM to give an evacuation message, something I felt was a little stupid. It helped that the venue had the correct types of sensors installed, meaning the smoke machines and hazers did not set off alarms.

 

The system did a reset every 12 hours (according to the details I was given upon my induction) and would reset the board to it's normal state upon reset, which is indicated by the lights on the SM desk flashing red until the completion of the reset. If that happened during a show (which is shouldn't, although when you are teching till 3am, it does happen), you had to go to the board, turn the key back to normal, then to the show position again.

 

The system (I don't know which company did it) was one of the best I have worked with. The place I finished my last show with cannot use smoke/hazers, and is part of a much larger complex, which cannot issolate the theatre. Stupid IMO.

[danburns]

What was the venue?

 

I expect the system cost a fair bit but it's worth having it to avoid evacuating your theatre. Luckily ours is only 136 seats and we have a partial system in place (domestic detectors backstage and one in the fly's and bar, rehearsal rooms + foyer have an auto fire alarm.) You can't hear the alarm in the auditorium as the volume's set to low on the sounder, but that alerts the FoHM to go and investigate/evac accordingly. I have now convinced them that a strobg in the box may be a good idea so the LX/Sound Crew know theres an alarm situation.

 

Dan

[mac.calder]

What was the venue?

 

I expect the system cost a fair bit but it's worth having it to avoid evacuating your theatre. Luckily ours is only 136 seats and we have a partial system in place (domestic detectors backstage and one in the fly's and bar, rehearsal rooms + foyer have an auto fire alarm.) You can't hear the alarm in the auditorium as the volume's set to low on the sounder, but that alerts the FoHM to go and investigate/evac accordingly. I have now convinced them that a strobg in the box may be a good idea so the LX/Sound Crew know theres an alarm situation.

 

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It was a university theatre - as getting 5 fire trucks out every time the alarm went off (which happened three times) at au$800 ea they decided it was worth it. The student theatre (small black box theatre in the 'campus centre') cannot be isolated though - which IMO it should be able to. That one gets at least 3 fire trucks comming out, so we have to be careful even with gaffa tape as that will set the detectors off... It's a royal pain.

[david.elsbury]

That one gets at least 3 fire trucks comming out, so we have to be careful even with gaffa tape as that will set the detectors off... It's a royal pain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean? The usage of gaffer tape, tearing it and sticking it causes the alarm to go off? Or that the system won't let you gaffer over the sensors?

 

David