Smoke/Haze & fire alarms

[sleah]

As we all know too many places ban smoke / haze due to fire alarms.

Obviously an ordinary smoke machine will set off an optical sensor, but what about a hazer?

Not the sort of thing you can easily find out (without upsetting someone)!

I've loaned some lights to a local venue for a competition (Rock Idol anyone?) but the GM is paranoid about the fire alarms. We only want a tiny amount of haze just to highlight the beams....

Trouble is their fire system is linked to two more units in the same building and calls the fire boys out, so just giving it a try is not an option!

Any thoughts or ideas or tough luck etc.....?

 

Ta

 

Simon

[vinny baby]

There is not much you can do apart from be very sparing with it!

 

smoke or haze can equally set of the sensors, depending on what sensors are installed.

 

Search the forum as this topic has been covered a few times in the past, im sure it wont be too hard to pull out some history :)

[david.elsbury]

I'd say tough luck, sorry. If it's a smoke detection system, it'll trigger cos it sees smoke. They work by particles in the air (smoke, haze, a fire) interrupting a light beam and bouncing light into a sensor. So since haze still puts particles in the air (how else would you get the beams?) it will trigger the sensor.

Sorry

David

[vinny baby]

couldnt somebody develop a smoke sensor that only detects burning substances??

 

Im once again touring the bourne leisure resorts this season (haven, british hols, warner and butlins) yippee :)

 

Most of the camps have had new entertainment complexes, new stage, lighting ect. They have also had new smoke sensors fitted. Guess where they have been fitting them?

 

Yep above the stage........................are these people stupid or what!! the stage area is swarming with staff, why is there a need for a sensor on stage? (apart from the fact of a fire) surely if there was a fire somebody would notice and raise an alarm?

 

Its really making mine and many other LDs life a mysery!

 

Also most of the camps have had new lighting, but for god sake why they keep putting in plug and play fixtures in, Its all martin stuff so its ££££ for a non DMX light, surely for the same money they could buy some decent DMX fixtures and give more flexibility and excitement to the shows!

 

Sorry to rant and go :)

 

back to fire sensors there isnt more more to say mate, I would contact the local authority and see what they advice maybe if they were made aware of the fact that you were using smoke effects. We had to do it before, we told them that we were using smoke effects, and they informed the call centre, that if a sensor did trigger the call centre waited for a telephone confirmation before they despatched.

 

You may be able to get a fire marshall to attend, and disable the sensors (if they can be) then if something was to catch fire you have services there, and somebody could raise the alarm.

 

I think all alarms should have zoning per sensor, this way your only isolating maybe 1 room, if fire did start in that room there should be an alarm point within reach.

 

vince

[sleah]

Yep above the stage........................are these people stupid or what!! the stage area is swarming with staff, why is there a need for a sensor on stage? (apart from the fact of a fire) surely if there was a fire somebody would notice and raise an alarm?

 

[rant]

Is this a sign of the times? That we live in an age where HSE and insurance companies and so on assume that everyone is too F*****g stupid to even shout 'FIRE!' when they see one, let alone press a button!!!

And so in the example above, when a bit of dust starts to burn off a little used lantern over the stage (as they do occasionaly) and produces a waft of smoke, it goes straight in to the sensor and bingo - evac mid show!

Of course they may have been clever and thought of theatrical smoke and put a heat sensor up there so when the lanterns have been at 100% for a while is gets nice and warm up there.........

[/rant]

 

Our local Chicago Rock Cafe has a button panel in the managers office with three buttons - Closed, Day & Night, it powers up screens, changes level of bass bins, satellite speakers etc, could that idea be taken a step further for theatres?

Have say, closed, rehearsal & show, so that in show mode the sensors would be isolated, maintained lights activated, exits lit and so on. In closed mode the fire alarm would be fully active, dimmers and PA powerd off?

[the kid]

couldnt somebody develop a smoke sensor that only detects burning substances?? 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that not a temperature style sensor?

[jamielovesmusic]

Yeah you should check out the difference. There are two types of fire detector : Heat and Smoke - if someones in the know you should ask what type they have fitted in the venue. In venues in Leeds, alot use heat detectors which are totally not affected by smoke. Sometimes you find though the contractors put heat detectors in the auditorium, but then put smoke detectors in the coridor, just outside where you are, so you still run into trouble!

[superstar LD]

Yeah put a heat detecter on stage, they do this as well, they ussaly put it above an LX bar. soon as you wack the lighting on.....................boys in blue!!

 

They should develop a special sensor for use in entertainment venues. theatres ect.

[Brian]

There are two types of fire detector : Heat and Smoke ...

 

Just to be pedantic but there are four types of detector...

 

-Ionisation type smoke detectors

-Optical type smoke detectors

-Heat detectors (fixed level)

-Rate of Heat Rise detectors

 

Each has a specific application. Any competent installer who understands the problems associated with theatre type venues should be able to design a system which will satisfy the fire authorities and not keep giving false alarms.

[slim_mcslim]

but the GM is paranoid about the fire alarms. We only want a tiny amount of haze just to highlight the beams....

Trouble is their fire system is linked to two more units in the same building and calls the fire boys out, so just giving it a try is not an option!

 

All you have to do is phone the fire control centre, who monitor their fire alarms and tell them that you will be conducting a fire alarm test, give them the password/code and then fire the hazer to your hearts content, if it sets the alarms off press silence and reset on the fire panel and then pack up the hazer, if nothing happens, then jobs a good'en and use the effect (sparingly) on your event night...

 

slim...

[JonChambers]

Just recentley used smoke machines & hazers in a school hall - so everything is smoke alarmed.

 

The stage has a few holes in and there is a smoke detector under neath the stage. We were using quite high powered smoke machines and it didn't set the alarms off there.

[TomLyall]

Just recentley used smoke machines & hazers in a school hall - so everything is smoke alarmed.

 

The stage has a few holes in and there is a smoke detector under neath the stage. We were using quite high powered smoke machines and it didn't set the alarms off there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, I don't quite understand the point of your post, but, if I interpriate it as I think I should, what I think you're trying to say is that just because you 'chanced' it and didn't have any problems, everyone else should? No.:P

[andy_s]

best way (and quite common practice in theatres) is to have a zoned sensor system so that stage areas can be isolated during performances. the stage needs to have detectors above it because sometimes fires start when there is no one around to raise the alarm.

[V.A.]

Just recentley used smoke machines & hazers in a school hall - so everything is smoke alarmed.

 

The stage has a few holes in and there is a smoke detector under neath the stage. We were using quite high powered smoke machines and it didn't set the alarms off there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's probably because the smoke/haze will have risen, and the detectors were below floor level, so the two won't have come into contact. If the detectors were at floor level or above they'd probably have set off.

[BlueShift]

we had this same problem at my college one time. I was production manager for a large school theatre production and as part of this we had some small pyro and a smoke machine. the sensors in our auditorium were particulate type sensors as well as some heat rise sensors. we conducted a test and the pyro actually clogged the smoke detectors so badly they had to be cleaned and were going off all day. the solution in the end was to install a keyswitch in the auditorium which isolates it from the fire alarm system when we are using such devices and we installed covers over the sensors to prevent them from clogging when deactivated