paulears Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Back in November I did some work for a new client. They actually sent me rail tickets I could collect from the station. However, the fee didn't arrive - not huge money, but sensible for what I did. I asked if they were waiting for an invoice, no they said, you will be an employee, with tax and NI. I don't really mind this because it usually wipes out my tax bill. They sent a few forms asking bank details and here we are four months later, after doing another job for them. Now it seems they don't have certain records in file - and have sent me a form about my status to work - which has more questions about being a foreigner than a UK citizen. They need me to send them my passport, which I don't wish to do with their track record of efficiency, and worse still, they want my FULL birth certificate. I have a few short versions I usually send out, but I really do not want to send my original birth certificate. The reasons are VERY personal to me, but I was adopted, and am in the process of finding out who my real family were/are. I've found out my 'real name', and where I was born - which is totally different from Leicester, which is what I'd always believed. So I do not wish to let a load of HR zombies into my person information at this level. My short certificate gives my date of birth and certifies it is a true record of the original birth details. This is apparently unacceptable. Has anyone any information on how to get around this hassle. The work is interesting and right up my street, but admin wise, they are useless, and I don't feel like doing anything not required by law. HMRC have all my details - is there any way around this anyone is aware of. Copies are NOT acceptable, and the short BC is out. It's serious enough to me to make me turn the work away, but that's rather daft isn't it. This mean a great deal to me - and I realise it's perhaps not very rational, but to get your birth records the LAW requires counselling 'cuts I'm old. Sharing this with strangers seems an infringement of some kind of right? Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morristech Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm afraid I can't really help as such, but I've had a fair few jobs as an 'employee' and never been asked for much more than my NI number and some photo ID for them to photocopy. Not once have I been asked to provide a birth certificate. I'm almost certain that a photo ID and your National Insurance number are all they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Agreed, we let our Accountants handle our payroll and all they require is NI number and proof of ID for our guys. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musht Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Unless it was working in a secure enviroment or with kids , but think Paul already does work in education so would have Full Disclosure or whatever is currently required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 There's a legal requirement now for employers to ascertain you have the legal right to work here and to comply with discrimination laws you have to ask EVERYONE however ridiculous the question might be (I'm part of a family business, I had to formally ascertain that my sister was legally allowed to work here) and as with most systems how individual firms implement the exact wording of the law means there's variation when there should be harmony. In short though most companies are happy that a validated NI number and a national identity card (or other photo ID like a passport) is enough to reasonably establish that someone isn't an illegal immigrant though. It sounds like this particular company are stalling or don't fully understand the regulations..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 All this stuff should be sorted out before you are allowed to work on site. Small Claims Court and don't work for them again. I think you will find the fact that you take them to the court will be enough to tell them that you are qualified to work here.If they go to the court they won't like the judgement against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_P Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The guidance to employers is here: https://www.gov.uk/g..._documents.pdfI read it as any one of the documents listed should be acceptable.I believe that similar restrictions now, or will soon, apply if you need to rent a house. What a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylouder Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 on that gov. site https://www.gov.uk/legal-right-work-uk Check if someone can work in the UK do they have a uk paasport? yes are they a british cotizen yes The person is entitled to work in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalhammond Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Sounds like a delaying tactic to me.A photocopy of those documents should suffice along with the fact you have a UTR and a national insurence number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'd have thought that a UK passport and an NI number (or UTR number) would be perfectly sufficient to prove your eligibility for work in the UK. Sounds like they're taking the p..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 They seem pretty pathetic, and I'd love to say stuff it, but there's a large number of dates coming up that I'd started to clear space for - so once sorted, it's probably ok - but they just have excuse after excuse. I read the links (well one of them, the other gets a 404) and they do need sight of the original. So I guess I'm stuffed - I just don't like sending passports to unreliable organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nplatt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is there not a option to take the originals with you next time you do some work for them that way you are in full control of the documents. If your short birth certificate is a legal document then surely they are just taking the p*** It might also be worth asking who is going to process the information. I have refused to supply sight of my passport and birth certificate at work this year as the company processing the details has a history of selling them on and has been issued some very large fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I tend to agree, the passport is simply that losing it is likely to cost me money if I cannot travel, but the adoption thing is not an issue for me, or my family and friends - but so many idiots assume that this means bad parents, been in care or simply somehow involved in something a bit odd - which is so far from the truth. If you are adopted since 1975 it's easier as both sides have no guarantee of the records being unsealed, but being a bit ancient - I only managed so far (after 4 months) to find out my real mother's full name, and now I also know where I was born, they can start going through boxes of records to find my stuff. On my full birth certificate it has my adoptive parents details, and an ominous gap of six months between this record and my birth date. The short certificate simply says my name and date of birth - my daughter-in-law (almost)works for the Government putting reluctant people into jobs, and she cannot accept short certificates as proof of anything? Since the first post, I've had a rather pleading and honest email from the person who allocates my work, saying that it isn't HR, she's been overworked, seeing the doctor and has made a real mess of everything, giving me her bosses email so I can complain about her! Reading between the lines, I suspect that as she knows me face to face, the scan I've sent of my passport may well be handed to HR as if she scanned it herself. I can be quite savage with faceless incompetents, but can't quite do the same thing. Hopefully, HR will now have a complete pile of paper and I might get the money, in March! Anybody else a bit of a softie like me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 A few years ago we had a situation where we hired a guy who was about 50 a the time, had worked in the UK and paid his tax and had a NI and UTR number, but when it came to the paperwork to prove he could work in the country (as he had done for the last 30 years) which the Gov't had recently tightened up, he couldn't produce proof. Specifically, a passport. Turned out that he'd come to Britain in the early 60's from Jamaica and had traveled on his parent/guardian's passport as young children did then, and had never had a passport of his own since. He'd been schooled in Britain, graduated in Britain, paid tax in Britain and voted in Britain, but somehow the issue of actual citizenship had fallen through the cracks over the decades, and so technically he was still a Jamaician citizen, not British, and so needed to apply for visas to work here. In the end the home office granted him a temporary visa to continue working in the UK while he went through the rigmarole of applying for citizenship and doing the tests and paying the (not insubstantial) fees to allow him to continue to live and work in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am (long) ex RAF and have papers to prove it, but only a passport and birth certificate was adequate to continue my current employment, yes continue! The formal statement from the company was if you cannot prove entitlement to work in the UK then we will fire you for that reason -unable to prove entitlement. However I do work in a placed where I can take my own passport to a senior manager to be "seen". No I wouldn't trust them to post the passport back to me. It did cost me about £100 to get the forms and the photos and find a referee etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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