the kid Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think I am very good at telling when I cannot work anymore, the "issue" is being able to stop / being able to say to the person/people they you have to stop. One thing I took from an old job was the 11 hour rule. To be honest it has made me quite happy and I have used it before when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashroom66 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ok, using the alcohol "scale" (which I think is quite a good way of doing it) If you get pulled over for drunk driving "I was getting drunk, so I didn't know how drunk I was" might not be the best defense in court. Knowing how drunk you are is a "skill" that we have taught ourselves because drunk driving is bad; people generally know when they have had too much, depending on the situation (driving home after a meal vs NYE house party - different levels for how drunk is too drunk), how much they know they can handle, how much they have eaten, and other factors that mean that only they can judge it - seem familiar, yet in this case not knowing how incapacitated you are is no defense. I'm not saying that you shouldn't stop anybody crawling into their car (in either situation :-) ) - but it is hard to judge from the outside unless they have gone very much too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Earlier this week I was talking to a guy from a company that is coming to us in a few weeks' time. He arrives at us at 9.00am and hopes that, if all goes well, the get-out will end at midnight. I asked where he was coming from that morning and he said "it's not too bad - just a two and a half hour drive". This means he will be on the go from 6.30am till 2.30am the following day, if all goes well - a shift of 20+ hours. This is something he considers "not too bad". It would be great to get away from these kind of shifts, but he's running his own business and if he charges for overnight accommodation for 2 nights then he'll be undercut be someone else who won't. I find it difficult to blame him, but will try not to be on the same roads as him when he's driving home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm glad that some more attention is being placed on the effects of fatigue. What concerns me is how we measure it, and how we get people to relate to it in a meaningful way. In a more scientific sense, blood alcohol levels don't lie - alcohol is either present in the blood-stream above a certain level, or it isn't. In another sense, it's quite easy to have a simple rule without fancy measurement gear: Had a drink in the last 24 hours? Don't drive. Alcohol is perhaps a much more easily-avoidable risk than tiredness. For example... You may think you slept well, but that truck that kept coming past your bedroom window fighting its sat-nav in finding its destination could well have interrupted your sleep patterns, without you knowing a thing about it. Slept in a hotel last night? The couple in the room next door certainly didn't, and without putting too fine a point on it, they made quite the night of it. ;) So you might *think* you slept well because you didn't consciously hear them, er, "not sleeping", but actually your sleep patterns were all over the shop. So you turn up to site next day feeling groggy as hell, and for some unknown reason you're all over the shop, and you know deep-down that after this day's done you still need to get home. So how do we get to a stage where tiredness and fatigue are more controllable? Do we simply set strict working-time limits on self-employed as well as "employed" folk of 8 hour days/40 hour weeks, in the hopes that this will reduce the overall risk, much as speed limits reduce overall risk on the roads? Sure, they won't catch everything, but they'll act as a guide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's not always the work provider's fault, few self employed subcontractors baulk at a 2 - 3 hour drive before and after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingwalker Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is there a way of measuring any specific hormones in your body that can give an indication as to how much sleep you have had? Much as in the same way a breathaliser can do? David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 On a side track, and apologies for bringing up an OLD chestnut... There is always the argument over the fact that unnecessary work causes unnecessary fatigue. Skip back to the Tallescope arguments of making the lampie repeatedly climb the vertical ladder and becoming tired very quickly as a result versus the mitigatable risk of moving that Talle whilst he's still atop the basket... Yes, you could argue that rotating the lampie at the top would solve that issue, but not necessarily if you have the touring proddie being the one to do that job because he knows what he wants instead of having to translate for the local guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyld Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There is always the argument over the fact that unnecessary work causes unnecessary fatigue. Arguably, the entire work of show business is largely unnecessary and yet we persist in fatiguing ourselves. More seriously, one could argue that focusing is unnecessary work when the whole rig could just be controlled from the deck and have done with it. One might even argue that the vile scheduling still currently far too prevalent in theatre is also not 'necessary' until everyone starts going on about how we must knacker ourselves for the industry to remain viable..... blah.... running around in tallescopes was good enough our forebears etc. I eventually found myself unable to stomach what was deemed 'necessary' in theatreland, but not the hours or the pointless dangerous situations, but what I struggled with was everyone's attitude that always ended in a shrug and that it was just 'how things were'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Is there a way of measuring any specific hormones in your body that can give an indication as to how much sleep you have had? Much as in the same way a breathaliser can do? David. Not in a sensitive or specific way - some is to do with the level of sleep you were in when you woke up - this is how some apps etc aim to help you wake up when already in a REM stage of light sleep, so it feels more 'natural' - this can be augmented by good mattress, 'sunlight' wavelengths in light at time of waking etc - we've all had the night where you sleep 4hrs and feel great or sleep 10 and feel groggy. However, you can do the various reaction times tests but non are clinically validated except in sleep clinics for chronic poor sleep / tiredness / OSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Word of caution about breathalysers and indeed about alcohol in general. Thinking you know how much you can drink before being affected is an impossibility since alcohol changes one's brain chemicals and affects judgmental faculties. The same with a breathalyser. It does not tell you how drunk you are merely the amount of alcohol in your bloodstream at one precise moment. It is possible to drink a large amount quickly and pass the test only to fail drastically the following morning when you feel much more sober. The worst person to judge how drunk a person might be is that person and the same applies to those who are affected by fatigue. Been there, done that, got the scars from both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 These days I always try to follow the advice given in Norman Painting's autobio, written after his near fatal heart attack which followed a gruelling broadcasting and social schedule - "If your body tells you it is exhausted - believe it!" Mind you it's easier advice to follow as you get older, it tells you more often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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