"Wall of smoke"

[Ynot]

Another request for this Burlesque show is a 'wall of smoke' that the ladies can stroll through at the start of one number.

 

Now, knowing the unpredictability of smoke I'm not yet convinced this will be feasible, BUT am willing to give it a try but looking for anyone with actual experience of achieving anything like the plan. :)

 

The idea will be to have smoke coming up through holes in a feeder tube from the stage deck, probably lasting about 30 secs max.

 

Problems I see:

 

There has to be enough space behind the tube for them to walk/stand before they come through it, but our stage depth isn't that big, so this will HAVE to be something moveable.

 

Dissipation - even using the fast disperse fluid, I'm not yet sure if the amount of smoke produced will disappear quickly enough or whether it will just cover the whole stage in a thick fog!

 

 

 

 

Thoughts:

 

I do have two small magnum 500/550 machines that I can direct into each end of (eg) a 4 inch rigid plastic pipe (with floor mounts to keep it in correct orientation). MAYBE have a crude mechanism with half section of a slightly larger pipe to block the holes in the main pipe until the pipe is filled with smoke, then that slides over to 'release' the smoke...

 

In theory that should work to an extent, but experimentation required methinks.

 

This could also be made rigid enough to be slid 3 feet or so downstage when needed, I guess...

 

Anyone any definitive experience?

 

 

 

[Shez]

Does the smoke have to go upwards or could it drop down from above? It's easier to work with gravity than against it...

[timsabre]

I have tried various things like this in the past. Your ducting plan will work (you need to leave 1" air gap between the machine nozzle and the pipe) but the main problem will be getting rid of the smoke, it will initially make a nice curtain but will immediately start to drift and fill the stage and within a few seconds nobody will be able to see anything. And if people walk through it that will just make the spreading worse.

 

The only way you will get it to work is with extremely fast dispersing smoke. Jem do "pro steam simulation" fluid which disperses within a couple of seconds (looks almost like a CO2 burst). You can run this continuously for 30 sec and it will be gone 5 seconds later.

 

I have strong suspicions that it is just normal fluid with a higher proportion of deionised water, and if you are happy to experiment with your own fluid mix I am sure you could make something similar - with the usual warnings about voiding machine warranties etc. Fixed temperature machines do tend to spit when used with fluid with a high water content, the bigger Jem machines have variable block temperature to handle it.

[Ynot]

Does the smoke have to go upwards or could it drop down from above? It's easier to work with gravity than against it...

Huh??

Not with smoke in my experience! ;)

 

... it will initially make a nice curtain but will immediately start to drift and fill the stage and within a few seconds nobody will be able to see anything. And if people walk through it that will just make the spreading worse.

 

The only way you will get it to work is with extremely fast dispersing smoke. Jem do "pro steam simulation" fluid which disperses within a couple of seconds (looks almost like a CO2 burst). You can run this continuously for 30 sec and it will be gone 5 seconds later.

Yup - this is my biggest concern to be honest. I'll get a litre of the 'steam' fluid and have a play - the so-called fast-disperse I already have doesn't seem to do what it says much faster than regular fluid...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Le Maitre also do a 'fast' and 'super-fast' or whatever they call it. If you can't find it in 1l bottles gives us a shout.

[Tom Baldwin]

Sounds as much like a lighting challenge as an FX one.

 

Fast dispersing fluid will stop the stage becoming a whiteout, but selective sidelighting (only) will make a smaller amount of smoke a better barrier to visibility, x-fading to sidelighting further DS as the act moves DS and through the wall, thus highlighting the transition from invisible act to fully visible one.

 

I suspect the reference to gravity was a suggestion to use ducted low "smoke" (whether Glaciator derived or dry-ice derived) falling as a curtain.

Without knowing your theatre, I don't know how easily you can fly that sort of tech, but if you have a fly floor which could accommodate a PeaSouper or two, then you might well get the effect you want without losing the theatre for days!

[dbuckley]

I've seen an entire production (R&J) done against a "wall of smoke"; the striking part of it was really the wall of downlights in the smoke.

[Jivemaster]

Seen this once.

Think a grille in the floor, middle slot is smoke going up, other slots are blown air to entrain the smoke in a vertical column rising to a similar linear grille which is above the feed grille and sucks the smoke wall away again -to outside.

 

Lots of effort is needed to get the smoke and all the air supply right to keep the smoke solidly in the laminar airflow then OUT of the area.

 

Careful lighting will make the most of only a little smoke so it should not be a problem elsewhere.

 

Sadly the inevitable draughts will let some of the "wall" smoke escape. It becomes a matter of degree as to how much loss is acceptable because lost smoke usually is not sucked away in the optimum way.

[kerry davies]

I may be being stupid (normal) but what about one of those screen thingys without projection?

 

Fogscreen IIRC?

[Gareth A]

Indeed - Fogscreens are a good way. ! We use them in China for both projection and lighting on.

 

Linky

 

BUT - they need a decent supply of water, they way between 80kg - 180kg PER UNIT depending which one. The water tanks are not silent at all with all the pumps and stuff.

 

However the output machine is pretty quiet.

 

 

But they are pretty good machines.

[david.elsbury]

Water?? Then it isn't fog in the theatrical sense..?

[Gareth A]

Water?? Then it isn't fog in the theatrical sense..?

 

Bit like Hi-Fog on ships - technically water sprinkler, but misted so fine its more of a fog. But still water.

 

Correct - Fogscreens are done by pure water only. Or certainly all the ones we have used in China that were imported anyway. Amazing machines. Bonus is because its water - it disperses within seconds and doesn't leave any residue, no ongoing fluid costs (except water).

[Ynot]

I saw the Fogscreens at PLASA a year or three back and yes, they'd be ideal, but sadly there's nowhere near the budget for the hire of such, and as I recall the overhead gear was quite bulky too, which is a practical issue as the area I'd need to hang it from is quite busy with other stuff...

 

As for using chilled fog effects, no there's no way to get a Glaciator anywhere near high enough (even if we could raise such a beast in any way), and personal experience of using Glaciators and the like in our venue doesn't fill me with confidence that it would work...

 

But yes, there's plenty of top and side light available where it needs to be.

 

 

 

 

[ianknight]

I saw the Fogscreens at PLASA a year or three back and yes, they'd be ideal, but sadly there's nowhere near the budget for the hire of such, and as I recall the overhead gear was quite bulky too, which is a practical issue as the area I'd need to hang it from is quite busy with other stuff...

 

As for using chilled fog effects, no there's no way to get a Glaciator anywhere near high enough (even if we could raise such a beast in any way), and personal experience of using Glaciators and the like in our venue doesn't fill me with confidence that it would work...

 

 

 

Tony - have you considered an ICE 100? It's a relatively compact machine that will take ice cubes to act as the chiller so it could be set above head heght. Far far easier to put at a height than a Glaciator.

 

The smoke will stay cold enough to drop down over an opening as a 'curtain' - the only real issue is how wide you want that opening to be. If you use one with 'dense' fluid in the tank, it tends to disperse downwards rather than up in to the air so generally just leaves a light haze about the place.

[ImagineerTom]

To be honest, anything other than CO2 style cryojets is going to result in a rather wimpy looking wall of "smoke" with all the over-spill problems others have mentioned. I've created "near-enough" facsimilies using regular smoke machines & clever ducting but it still needed careful lighting to produce a good enough wall effect. The reference point most people have (the "stars in their eyes doorway" was actually an 8ft deep room filled with smoke and even that required some skillful editing to make it look like people could emerge from behind it.

 

To be honest your best bet is to use a projector (water projector maybe) and lots of side-light (a wall of pinspots?) through a good haze so that you get a "wall" that they can hide behind and burst thru but which still looks like the swirling moving smoke effect they want.