2 images in one

[the kid]

So I am doing some sketching out for a show and I know one thing I would quite like to do if possible but after a couple of days thinking nothing is jumping out at me.

 

I want a disc 4ft across (or there abouts) I want this to be a light box,* painted white inside but black gauze or something covering to obscure it until in use.

 

HOWEVER I want to be able to have 2 images in the light box,- a logo - some words. Lets say swastika (standard black shape on white) and "kit kat club" (maybe black outline with red letters)

 

Now with the gauze version I could have the disc lit a touch, and project the words via gobo, but if I have a permanent swastika its going to be a tad annoying as I would rather keep it hidden. Also if I use gauze the logo is not going to be that crisp and will blead.

 

I should say I would have about 1m to back wall and a 10 ish meter throw to the flat, One Option is 2 identical lanterns and 2 gobos side by side, but I would rather a light box as we can then also make some copied logos else where as light boxes built in.

 

The other alternative of course is to project but I would rather go for a real thing than some bit of video.

 

My initial thought is some suspended box, with the circle cut on the set, and a "stencil" moved in to place, but I am looking at having it over a door and 2m up so I don't think so. I also have the great idea of a light box in a light box, but that got kinda ruined by remembering the slanty swastika.

 

This is all an idea at the moment so it may not happen but any ideas about be great.

 

*can you get 4ft tungsten tubes ? I vaguely remember seeing smaller ones maybe 1 or 2 ft ones.

[Tom Baldwin]

I think this is perfectly possible in a lightbox, although rather time consuming in assembly.

 

I would use black gauze for the outermost surface of the lightbox, as you suggested, followed by some neutral density gel, then some heavy frost, followed by the actual light sources, and finally, the back of the lightbox.

To achieve the two images in one effect, you will need to subdivide the the area inside the lightbox into a lot of smaller areas, using dividers which span the entire gap between the back of the lightbox and the frost. I'm finding it a little difficult to describe, but think of a honeycomb baffle, but with less regular shapes.

 

To determine the shapes you require, just overlay the two pieces of artwork - in this example, the X stands in for the swastika, and I'm sure the club logo could be more interesting, but it gives the idea:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9947/outlineskey.png

The key point here is that some of these areas need two different coloured light sources.

- the yellow area is the simplest, and need only be illuminated with white light

- the black area also only needs white light

- the red area only needs red light

- the magenta area needs red and white light

 

To get the swastika, illuminate all the white lights, in all of the different areas:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4830/outlinesswas.png

 

To get the club logo, illuminate all the red lights:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9249/outlineskit.png

 

And to hide the sign, turn all the lights off:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/6180/outlinesblack.png

 

If you use LED strips, then the dividers can simply be card; for the most even illumination you should probably cover every internal surface of the lightbox with tinfoil. The green lines in the diagrams above illustrate where these dividers are, purely for clarity of explanation.

 

The combination of gauze, ND and frost should give a very dull finish when not in use, and give good even illumination when powered. Using ND does sacrifice brightness, but add immeasurably to the quality of the "off" state.

 

Because the card is pretty thin, and because of the heavy frost & gauze, the joins between the areas should be all but invisible from the audience perspective.

[the kid]

I am confused about the LED strip bit but the rest is making sense.

 

Like I said in my op, if only the swastika was not slanty I would have done the kit kat club in the horizontal bar, If I could get proportions right.

 

I will say Ideally I want to spend not much on it, I would in theory have the time but finance wise sub £100 investment yes! total bill ideally not more than £100-150 but I am sure ideas can be squashed and massaged.

[Tom Baldwin]

The reason I brought up LED strips was heat. If you're going to use card as the divider (which would make the construction simpler), then you probably need a low heat lightsource. The other reason to suggest LED strips is that some of the areas will probably be quite small, and so LED strips would fit better than (for example) pygmy lamps.

[the kid]

So .. sorry if I am being slow, let us blame the time, but what type of LED strip are we talking about this? http://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-lights/5-meter-smd-led-strip-light-60-led-s-per-meter-warm-white-best-price-on-the-internet-3.html In which case I am now with you, Just need to find a way of switching / dimming. But at that price I may have to buy a bunch for other "bits"

[Tom Baldwin]

Yes, that was the style of LED strip I had in mind (rather than the finished LED battens that Thomann sell, for example).

 

Have a look on eBay and AliExpress to see if you can get better pricing.

[Nicktaylor]

I think you can do this using led christmas lights. The actual LEDs are clear looking when powered so wont really show up too much on a black background. As to dimming That will take experimentation. KONSTSMIDE are the ones I have a collection of. They double up for the outside of my house at Christmas time!

[mac500]

Is it something that could be changed in the interval? Save you a lot of build time if you could build a standard light box then change the front panel?

[ImagineerTom]

Why not a double-sided lightbox?

 

The cells idea is the normal method but too expensive and time-consuming for a single short production run.

Changing the front plate is a nice idea but impractical as it's going to be the first thing that gets dropped/dented/forgotten in a rush

 

Make a "tube" lightbox, put your light source around the circumference and put a different graphic on each end, then to change the sign all you have to do is rotate the light (a little bit of lateral thinking should come up with a method that's dependable and practical) to give you the two different options.

[Brian]

A light box with a double-width front which slides side-to-side? You can get plastic channel from B&Q for the perspex front to slide in. A piece of string to either side of the stage and you have remote change capability.

[Nicktaylor]

It sounds a little church hall though! I assumed looking at earlier posts that the op/director wants a subtle change from Kit Kat to X factor (sorry, swastika) An interesting exercise!

[Modge]

Rope Light? I've seen that used for a Kit Kat Klub sign before. Just put the swastika behind it perhaps?

[the kid]

It sounds a little church hall though! I assumed looking at earlier posts that the op/director wants a subtle change from Kit Kat to X factor (sorry, swastika) An interesting exercise!

 

 

Something like that, as I said it is all an idea at the moment but to have a change from A>B would be nice.

 

Thinking Rope light but My scale thought of Symbol v's logo would mean it was still there.

 

Something like this http://i46.tinypic.com/whgm1f.jpg The font is somewhat "close" to the style I was looking at.

[ImagineerTom]

for an "in-vision" change go with the double-sided idea and hang it from a mirror ball motor manually switched offstage?

[themadhippy]

Bloody big scroller,along the lines of those things attached to overhead projectors,just a bit bigger