stagemanagement Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hi All We took delivery of our new lantern stock at the start of January, a complete rig of ETC Source 4 stock (yeah, we know we're lucky in this day and age!) but we are going through HPL lamps on the new Fresnel's left, right and centre??!! The lamps are either blowing immediately on replacement or within a couple of days of being put in - both standrad 750 HPL's and Long Life versions.The lamps in question are GE Showbiz. I've checked with the supplier and they haven't had any reports of issues with the batch of lamps we received with the lanterns or any of the newer lamps we have ordered in to replace them.Their supplier has also claimed that the GE lamps are of a higher quality than the Philip's Broadways I suggested may last a bit better. (First time I've ever had anyone suggest that?!!) It has also been suggested that the issue may be our old Permus dimmers which are yet to be replaced (later this year), however, none of the Source 4 Zooms out front or our 575 JNR's onstage have had any such issues; which would indicate it is not the dimmers. It has only been the Source 4 Fresnel's and a couple of the Source 4 PARS which are doing this and it is not consistent to specific units or dimmer channels. Has anyone else with the new Fresnel's had any similar problems; perhaps a faulty batch of lamp holders in ETC's production line?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You obviously have a definite issue. My vote would be to get that supplier in pronto and have THEM look to see if they can determine the cause. I'd be pretty positive that this would fall under the warranty of said units. I'd also be sure to get a stock of replacement lamps out of them - you HAVE kept all those that have blown, yes? E2A - meant to suggest that you get 3 or 4 alternative lamps from a different manufacturer and try them in these lanterns as a controlled assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenalien Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 At risk of being obvious, have you checked that they are the correct voltage - there are 115v HPL lamps available so it's possible that there has been a mix-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn.williams Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I suspect there is a dodgy batch of GE HPLs going round. Recently myself and several colleagues have been having problems with excessive failure rates. I think WhiteLight had a bunch of dodgy ones through recently too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDLX Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Have you tried switching to another brand of HPL? Also check that the lamps are the UK 240V versions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Also check that the lamps are the UK 230/240V versions!Nope, you don't want 230v lamps at all. A 230v lamp run at 240v will have about a 50% life span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDLX Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Also check that the lamps are the UK 230/240V versions!Nope, you don't want 230v lamps at all. A 230v lamp run at 240v will have about a 50% life span. Well yes I guess this is true. So much for 230V standardisation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 If there was a voltage or batch issue, would the lamps not also be experiencing shorted lives in the other HPL fixtures in the rig? I'm inclined to agree with the OP that there could be a fault with the units and not the lamps. Is there any signs of Arcing on the pins of the blown lamps? I agree with Tony when he says get in touch with the supplier. If there is a fault, they may already be aware and if not, chances are they'll be glad to hear about it. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyld Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 If there was a voltage or batch issue, would the lamps not also be experiencing shorted lives in the other HPL fixtures in the rig? Well, the Juniors won't be lamped from the 750 batch and the OP hasn't mentioned if the other "good" units are 575s or if they were lamped using an earlier batch of 750s. So, while I agree that may rule out the more rig-wide voltage or main neutral issue, it certainly doesn't rule out the batch issue. If you have a load of new kit, you might lamp them using a new batch of lamps. When one goes, you are likely to replace them with another from that batch until you finally run out and go back to your supplier - who then supply more from that stock of dodgy lamps. Only when you've twigged and start lamping from old stock or a different batch, do things start to settle down. At this stage in the ETC S4 Fresnels product cycle, I wouldn't rule out a fixture/heat/design thingy possibility either and maybe those other PAR units were coincidence. However, a whole consignment of underperforming lamps isn't unheard of and I'd look there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagemanagement Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi All Thanks for the replies. To answer a few queries..... The Source 4 zooms not having any problems FOH are indeed 750W fixtures. All the lamps are 240V versions; with both standard and LL versions having blown over the last 8 weeks. I haven't yet tried any other brand; and won't be able until the new budget next month. They were all lamped from the original batch supplied with the lanterns upon delivery; with around another 4 having blown from a new batch ordered in as storeroom stock. Some of the lamps have been kept, I haven't been around for all of the moments when they blow and the crew are not always the best at disposing of them in the appropriate crate, so the rest have ended up in the general rubbish! There is some residue on the pins (white, rather than black) but looks more like insertion markings instead of arcing; and the lamps have all been fully inserted to the "click". (They are a bugger to remove though, with a couple having shattered with the force required to pull them out). Most have obvious damage to the glass where the filament has gone and one has gone the full milky white with a lovely deep blue band about an inch high around the middle, suggesting that particular lamp was not airtight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitlane Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm now dreading switching on our new S4 Fresnels. One observation. S4 profile lamps are axially mounted, S4 Fresnel lamps are base down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi All Thanks for the replies. To answer a few queries..... The Source 4 zooms not having any problems FOH are indeed 750W fixtures. All the lamps are 240V versions; with both standard and LL versions having blown over the last 8 weeks. I haven't yet tried any other brand; and won't be able until the new budget next month. They were all lamped from the original batch supplied with the lanterns upon delivery; with around another 4 having blown from a new batch ordered in as storeroom stock. Some of the lamps have been kept, I haven't been around for all of the moments when they blow and the crew are not always the best at disposing of them in the appropriate crate, so the rest have ended up in the general rubbish! There is some residue on the pins (white, rather than black) but looks more like insertion markings instead of arcing; and the lamps have all been fully inserted to the "click". (They are a bugger to remove though, with a couple having shattered with the force required to pull them out). Most have obvious damage to the glass where the filament has gone and one has gone the full milky white with a lovely deep blue band about an inch high around the middle, suggesting that particular lamp was not airtight!With my reletively lower requirements of new lamps, I have sometimes fed back info to the supplier. They are very good at looking at the bulb and seeing if it was something like an envelope failure or just ageing. If the former a credit note was given. I must admit as small time hire company unless I have very bad run I dont angst too much about blown lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Is the building new, or just the lights? Probably worth metering what you're getting out of the wall. A place I used to work in was brand new and we were getting about 255V on one phase. We had the power utility tap the transformer down a bit for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This might be a bit left field, but did the same person/persons lamp all the lanterns before first use?If one guy, for example, lamped the fresnels and someone else did the FoH stuff, MAYBE that first guy wasn't as careful with his fingers as the other(s) or didn't know/didn't care about getting greasy paw prints on the glass...Just a thought. However, looking at the description above, that still sounds like there may be a batch problem from source. Have you contacted your supplier yet? You say you can't afford to try an alternate manufacturer just yet BUT if the supplier is honourable and you can make a demonstrable case, you may very well get a box of different lamps to replace those that blew FoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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