JCC1996 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I do all the tech stuff for all my school shows, concerts etc. and I've noticed a major problem with comms. We have a budget of almost nothing, so I'm looking for any cheap ways of setting up a comms system. It needs to be easy to install and preferable not be permanent I.e we can set it up and remove as and when shows are being produced as our performance venue doubles as an assembly hall, dining room etc. Thanks in advance for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How about 2 way radios? Cheap, make sure you get ones with 3.5mm headphone connectors on them and just use proper radio etiquette. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushypeas Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm with Josh on this. For no money it'd be difficult to buy decent kit. You could always hire in the stations and just buy and install the cable but it depends how many shows you do as to whether this is cost effective. We're amateur, permanent but amateur. The most flexible way of doing it is with radios. Get some form of Squelch with them though, you don't want a curtain cue delivered by the taxis. I bought a quad pack of Motorola T8s and I love them. Hate the throat mics that the supplier threw in but love the radios. I think the bill was less than a tennner over £200. Cheaper ones are available. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We have proper wired comms which we use at College, and are semi-permanent. As in the long cable runs from SL to SR and from FoH to onstage are always there (dedicated for comms - mic/return lines are separate) and the PSU is always there, but we add the packs whenever and wherever we need them. However, last year I bought a set of 4 radios for myself, with earpieces, and use them all the time, both on jobs outside of school an events in school. They are Binatone Action 950s, and are the most professional radios I could find at consumer prices (I couldn't afford Motorola or similar). There are numerous motorbike lessons and taxis and stuff around school, and most other radios are awful when it comes to external interference, however these have some form of sub-sub-channel and after a bit of searching I have a frequency I use that has never had interference. The range is very impressive, reaching from one end of campus to the other, and the sound is much better than the pro Motorola radios that the maintenance team use. I would definitely recommend them to someone in your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Radios are NOT suitable for cueing shows. They are great for 2 way comms between people, but the severe drawback is that they are simplex devices, you cannot talk to each other at the same time - and this is essential. Imagine getting ready for a series of cues, maybe sound and lights. Something goes wrong, and lx cannot fire the next cue but the stage manager is already calling it - tough, the first time they know about it is when they take their finger off the button, and then both sound and lights try to jump in at the same time and double with each other. If you only want one-way comms they're fine - but the drawbacks are too severe. Interference from taxis is mentioned, and the usual solution is CTCSS - sub-audible tones that mean you don't hear messages not meant for you - so the local taxi firm on the same channel won't suddenly blurt out of the radio. However - just because you can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't there, and most radios will not go into transmit if there is a received signal, even if muted, present. So you may not even get your "GO" cue out, and not be aware. Some radios make a little peep when tx has been inhibited, others don't, and just stamp all over the other party. Either way, they cannot be 100% guaranteed. There have been quite a few Canford Tecpros on ebay - there are some dual channel ones at £60 buy it now at the moment. Add a cheap headset and a power supply and a two or three station system can be up and running for little more than walkie-talkie prices. Proper cans are less tiring, because they are not frequency limited, so sound more natural, andmany people can talk at the same time! walkie-talkies are ok as second best, but rotten as the primary comms system - and lastly, has anyone never had a radio battery go flat at the critical time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC1996 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks everyone for the amazing advice, and how prompt the replies were!! I get what your saying about the cons of walkie talkies, but I'm not entirely sure about how I would go about setting up anything like the kit your suggesting from eBay. Could you give me some details on how one of these systems would be set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You will need a master station or power supply, several types are available, and a belt pack and head set for each user. You will then need cable to daisy chain from the master station to belt packs. Most single circuit belt packs use 3 pin XLR, and the older Canford TecPro dual circuit belt packs use 6 pin XLR cable, with only five cores used (I think). I would avoid the dual circuit type TecPro belt pack with the toggle switch to switch between circuits as they always struck me as a bit of a bodge. A master station and headset may be good to put in a control room or maybe on a prompt desk, and may cut the number of belt packs required by one. I would avoid running comms down an audio multi as there is a 24V supply to power the belt pack electronics that could make mixers go bang if incorrectly plugged in. A very simple system could be: Master station and headset in control room, cable run to stage, belt pack and heatset at prompt corner. More information is available on the Canford website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe it's cheaper to have a plain psu and extra comms pack rather than a full master station, and potentially a lot simpler in a portable style setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC1996 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe it's cheaper to have a plain psu and extra comms pack rather than a full master station, and potentially a lot simpler in a portable style setup. Sorry, I'm not really familiar with the comms stuff, so could you explain what you mean by that. What is a plain psu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 While I was at school I fabricated two telephones from two handsets etc and found a bell wire pair long enough to go round the room, go for it that was working for the price of two batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 First thing is to google canford tecpro. They are probably the standard comms system in theatre style venues. A small box, with a headset attached, a button to turn the mic on, a volume knob and a button that flashes a light on the others. You connect them with ordinary mic cables - 3 Pin XLRs. In a daisy chain, or a box with a few sockets parallel connected - it doesn't really matter. At one point in the system, you have a power supply. The simplest system is therefore a power supply and two out stations with headsets. There are loads of extra bits you can add - but the best bit is simply that the system works and is reliable. String out the cables, plug the packs in and it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Forsdike Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Plain PSU http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/2000464/27-751_TECPRO-PS751-Power-supply-single-circuit Master Station http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/2000462/27-741_TECPRO-MS741-Master-station The PSU's are quater the price of a master station ideal for small venues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC1996 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Guys, I can't thank you enough for your help!! Its been really helpful and I can't believe how quickly you got back to me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Just a quick note, off topic albeit but probably worth going in here. If anybody is going to use 2-way radios as show comms (despite Paul's note), and you find that the headsets included are not suitable for how you use them, the company to speak to is THUNDERPOLE. Rather than buying from just Maplin or whatever, Thunderpole stock connectors for most if not all common 2-way radio handsets (including 'professional' models, not just the cheap ones) and will happily advise what you need for your radios. Yes they will cost more than you pay on eBay or wherever you get your cheap mass-produced stuff, but they sell quality gear and will make sure you buy the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Jivemaster did you go to my skool? Bet modern telephones don't use carbon mics any more,and im not sure if 3 pencil leads in an H shape on the draw of a matchbox would be reliable enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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