CSB95 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Wonder if you guys can help, I would like to be able to split my multicore output effectively for one send to go to FOH and the other to go to Monitors at side of stage. what is the easiest and cost effective way to do this? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 easiest and neatest,but not very cheap is 2 multi pin outputs on the stage box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacethebase Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thats the cheapest but the best way is to have two multi pins on your monitor console in and out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 ... what is the easiest and cost effective way to do this? As TMH suggests, two multicore connectors on the stagebox is a pretty standard way to go. If you are not using multipins, then this can be a pricey option. One alternative is to use T piece XLR connectors: http://www.bryant-unlimited.co.uk/c2/uploads/c2ag_250x135_3_nc3mfrc.jpg The ones shown above are from Bryant Unlimited, and you can simply make individual XLR leads up with them on, or make a loom to go between the stagebox and monitor desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilflet Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thats the cheapest but the best way is to have two multi pins on your monitor console in and out.. what makes you say that? I'd argue against that for flexibility reasons. eg: the band are a bit picky about their in-ears so bring their own monitor board for scene recall purposes or whatever. It happens, sometimes they neglect to tell you in advance. This dosnt have an out for your multicore. They'll want a multi to XLR fan out from your stage box, which if you have a 2 output box is easy, if youve built the split into the monitor boards dog box (I presume the last suggestion was doing this- the way some of SSEs large format analogues have a 32ch pyle labelled broadcast out?) then to substitute the desk requires a new stage box, plus fan out (and depending what you can cross hire locally may not fit your multicore, so need the multi and foh fan out, as well as potentially being incompatible with your on-stage satellite/patch system). And thats before you consider the possibility of main support on house/local desks both end, headline using house FOH and touring monitor, 15 minute change over without interrupting the audio and because you had so many spare lines didnt send a separate returns multi. or the show is simple enough to do monitors from front of house (brilliant your monitor board can go out and do that little corporate job that clashes without a sub hire), but the day before they want a split for broadcast/recording/other at stage end and youve just sent your only way of doing it on another gig? Yes thats a fairly specific situation to be in, but making one piece of gear (your foh desk) dependent on another (monitor desk) is an unneeded complication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacethebase Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Basicaly on the Dog Box you have a 150 pin veem in and out. the stage box main out goes in to the monitor console then out of the monitor console to FOH. If you want to ditch the console or unplug it just plug the end that is going to FOH straight in to the stagebox. Also most large stage setups have multiple outlets for the exact reason you said. Companys who own the level of kit that would require this type of setup would have wired it to Canford standard. Aslong as your stick to the code of wireing you can loop in and out how you like, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've got the stage end of the multi fitted with a harting, that connects to a matching connector on the box - then each way goes to a male AND a female, and then for good measure, there's another harting out. I don't use this one simply because I never need to. For most jobs that involve a monitor split - I simply feed the monitor desk from the male parallel XLRs. When I'm not doing a split - having male and female XLRs is really handy for all sorts of things. A fiddle putting together, but it works pretty well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilflet Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 If you want to ditch the console or unplug it just plug the end that is going to FOH straight in to the stagebox. Also most large stage setups have multiple outlets for the exact reason you said. yes, the bit im still trying to make sense of from your original post is what do you consider to be the benefit of putting the split in the desk instead of the more normal stage box approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike7172 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 id probably make loads of y-splits if finance is your concern.Another way is to have all of your inputs go straight into your monitor console and use the line-outs back into your main multicore (although this comes with a few potential headaches)short of that have somebody like vdc or klotz quote you on a proper splitter, but by the time you have multipins on everything and 100m of 48 pair cable your looking at a few grand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBrienLX Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Maybe not the cheapest way, but the safest is to have active transformered splitters in a rack. This protects both the microphones from each console individually as well as both consoles from anything nasty on the line. After that stage is personal preference, and depends really on how user friendly or "tour-able" it needs to be, colour coded multi pins are obviously a lot quicker and easier on site, but are also a lot more expensive and more difficult to fix. I would certainly try and stay away from multi pins with tails sending to FOH being in the dog box of the monitor desk, which will probably be very crowded with cable anyway and not nessarcerily what you want when line 4 has gone down mid gig and you have no snare drum at FOH.. For example. You can pick up some of the older BSS 4 way splits (can't remember the actual codes) fairly cheaply from time to time from eBay and the like. I suppose another question is how many ways are we talking about, if it 10 lines then multi pins etc might be a bit OTT? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb705 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Basicaly on the Dog Box you have a 150 pin veem in and out. the stage box main out goes in to the monitor console then out of the monitor console to FOH. If you want to ditch the console or unplug it just plug the end that is going to FOH straight in to the stagebox. Also most large stage setups have multiple outlets for the exact reason you said. Companys who own the level of kit that would require this type of setup would have wired it to Canford standard. Aslong as your stick to the code of wireing you can loop in and out how you like, I've only ever seen this on an M7cl-32 from a french company, pretty much all providers have a split on the stage box because it allows easy dry hire of desks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Once again the topic descends into a mass of different ways of doing it and arguing which is right and wrong. What I've always considered to be the standard approach, and don't get me wrong I know very little about industry standards I just mix bands in pubs, is the split in the stage box. A stage box of a suitable level of professionalism (again it's a guess as I don't really know) would probably have XLR ins, and parallel outs. Then it'd likely have some of those multipin things. Generally one for FOH, one for monitors, and sometimes another for good luck. I guess that's incase your cable doesn't quite reach that far. I guess you could then have a set amount of cable with a multipin on it in every desk you have in hire stock. You could then have long cables, and maybe a short one incase you wanted to do something really clever like have your main stage box up stage centre but still keep your monitor desk at the side (I mean who'd want a monitor desk up stage centre). I guess you could have returns on it, then you might have a separate little box aswell for returns, that way it can be flexible. You might consider having your remote boxes / drop boxes / sub boxes / cardboard boxes / whatever you wish to call them on multipin too and plug those into the box. You may find that some tails on the box to do the main box patching was your cup of tea but I'm probably getting ahead of myself. So to answer the question slightly more seriously, most people as far as I know, and I've hung around backstage at some places in the past, do the split in the stage box as it's more flexible. If however you just have your 2 desks and thats all you do, then it may be more cost effective to do it another way. Without knowing exactly what you do it's hard to say what is best. If you're in the hire market I'd look at what your local companies use, and try and match that to make things cross compatible. Unless they use EDAC of course, in which case, don't. Ever. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley1466 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 If you're in the hire market I'd look at what your local companies use, and try and match that to make things cross compatible. Unless they use EDAC of course, in which case, don't. Ever. Ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER! Tour lock connectors from Canford Audio are a cheaper solution with multi-pins and I believe they mate with VDC Veam connectors too (or at least the 37pins do). If you give us your location maybe some of us would be able to help you find out what your local hire companies have near you. I'm currently looking at starting a project to build a rack mounted stage box with FOH and MONS splits on multipins. Along with this I'm looking at the possibility of having some sub boxes on multipins to tails built into the panel for flexible and efficient patching. I am however building it to be compatible with a local hire company as it would be far more cost effective to hire in 50m/75m of Kelsey cable than to buy it, store it and maintain it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callumb Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 http://www.theloudest.co.uk/?sectionid=1&page=view_product&product_id=99 Those caught my eye a while back. A possibility for some! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave SA Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 HOW MUCH>!>! Don't buy those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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