Fog/haze machine alternatives?

[johndenim]

With more and more hotels and music venues refusing their use, is there an alternative that I can use?

I already have a bubble machine, but on a hard floor I have to be pretty frugal, otherwise it turns into an ice rink!

 

I had thought about a snow machine, but how much use will I get out of this outside of Christmas?

 

Suggestions please?

[themadhippy]

Dust?

[DMXBandit]

I don't know of any alternative that can be used instead of smoke/haze. A far as I can remember (please correct me if I have this wrong) smoke detectors detect the particles in the air by monitoring radiation between a source and a detector. It doesn't matter what these partials are, if there is enough they will block the detector and trigger the alarm.

 

Instead what I have been doing for these types of places is use lighting that gives a visual impact without smoke, led cans and battens etc, as well as filling the dance floor with good old moon flower effects from Destroyers. Not as fun as using smoke though and I do admit I really miss it when I have to leave the machine at home.

[johndenim]

Mad hippy, you really are mad! ;)

Are you suggesting I blast dust around?

Maybe I could sand the floor at the same time....

 

Thanks DMXBandit, I have done some recent events where they have had all of their smoke detectors removed and heat sensors put in their place, but this is rare.

All light effects, be they cheap and cheerful, or expensive moving heads benefit from a bit of the cloudy stuff.

I think some people must have ruined their reputation in the past by filling up a room in 5 seconds.

[DMXBandit]

I think another problem is staff not knowing they can switch their systems onto just heat detection. It can be surprising where you can use smoke though, some bars I have been to are no smoke aloud, then when I asked about using it in the crypt of a cathedral they said they would switch the detectors off so I could use as much as I wanted ;)

[johndenim]

Some staff point blankly refuse, a manager at a big hotel in Nottingham once nearly had kittens when I took the thing out of the box!

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with the smoking ban?

[Modge]

Mad hippy, you really are mad! ;)

Are you suggesting I blast dust around?

Maybe I could sand the floor at the same time....

 

Not sure whether you'll be in a position to take this one up or not, but to throw it out there: A friend of mine recently had to do an event in a room that didn't allow smoke but still wanted visible beams. His solution was to take 4 * Mac250 beams: they're that bright that if there's any dust in the air what so ever (you weren't planning on working in a Microprocessor Fab Plant?) you get decent beams. They're a conversion for the 250 wash - I can put you in touch with the hire co he got them from if you want. I've seen him demonstrating them in a haze free "averagely" dusty room and the beam was indeed impressive.

[niclights]

If you can't use haze then move away from beam effects and concentrate on cyc type work instead. For instance white strips material uplit/gobo/video projection or diffused LED effects.

[david.elsbury]

My suggestion would be to avoid the use of the word "smoke" when describing the effect. A lot of people associate smoke with fire, or burning, therefore it must be bad.

 

But if you refer to it as fog or haze, it seems to go down a wee bit easier with some people.

Worth a try at least- especially if you are trying to get them to isolate the alarms.

[indyld]

Like niclights says, if you can't use atmosphere you need more "set": Elastra, steelwork, plastic tubes, net, mesh, cycs, bubble wrap - basically anything that will take light and won't "set the alarm bells ringing" in any sense.

 

Ultimately, this often means using less of your budget on beamzy lighting effects and popping down to Homebase to stock up on something more solid. Although lighting effects are often thought of as being beams in smoke and waggle, in fact using just airborn particles rather than something more tangible is actually not terribly light efficient if you think about it.

 

BR member Judge always comes up with some interesting cheap set pieces, perhaps he'll pop along.

 

e2a: Don't forget that if you are lighting crowds/dancefloors etc then it's not always what it looks like from the "outside" that matters when your revellers have a few K of coloured light pumping in their faces.

[themadhippy]

Mad me,yes totally,however what's to stop you using a vacuum cleaner off stage,that just so happens to be a bit dusty .

[johndenim]

Not sure whether you'll be in a position to take this one up or not, but to throw it out there: A friend of mine recently had to do an event in a room that didn't allow smoke but still wanted visible beams. His solution was to take 4 * Mac250 beams: they're that bright that if there's any dust in the air what so ever (you weren't planning on working in a Microprocessor Fab Plant?) you get decent beams. They're a conversion for the 250 wash - I can put you in touch with the hire co he got them from if you want. I've seen him demonstrating them in a haze free "averagely" dusty room and the beam was indeed impressive.

That's not a bad idea, but I really need to use the kit I have, I don't have any Martin, and don't want to hire.

Thanks anyway.

 

 

 

My suggestion would be to avoid the use of the word "smoke" when describing the effect. A lot of people associate smoke with fire, or burning, therefore it must be bad.

 

But if you refer to it as fog or haze, it seems to go down a wee bit easier with some people.

Worth a try at least- especially if you are trying to get them to isolate the alarms.

 

Something I do every time David, I avoid that dirty word at all costs!

 

e2a: Don't forget that if you are lighting crowds/dancefloors etc then it's not always what it looks like from the "outside" that matters when your revellers have a few K of coloured light pumping in their faces.

 

This must be the best statement I have ever read! had me in stitches!! ;)

 

Mad me,yes totally,however what's to stop you using a vacuum cleaner off stage,that just so happens to be a bit dusty .

 

Well, not a bad plan.

However bringing in a vax may confuse some people....

I do get the odd comment on my vrx8's looking like vacuum cleaners though.

[Pattern123]

I have had a few venues, particularly Pubs & Hotels, genuinely believe that you cannot use a fogger anymore because of the smoking ban. A bit of careful explanation usually sets them straight - I find pointing to the X factor usually helps.

[bonzodog99]

I too get really fed up with not being able to use my haze machine. Especially now as I have changed my lights to LEDs (2 x Equinox Quadzilla), which due to the limited light look great in haze but pretty rubbish without. A couple of weeks ago, I did not even bother to ask the venue and just stuck the haze on a low ouput on a long timer. No alarms went off, the venue were none the wiser and the lights looked great. But thats the benefit of haze over fog. Its not as obvious.

When I take bookings now, I tell them in great depth that if I cannot use my haze with lights then it will greatly affect the visual appearance. I appreciate the comments about when you are on the dance floor with lights in your face you still get a good effect without haze, but I use mine behind me on the stage (as I am a singer) and without haze I may as well not bother.

I think this issue needs more attention because like what has already been said, most people that refuse to let me use haze, tell me its because of the smoking ban!!

I did a gig a few weeks ago, where I could not use haze and the sound limiter in the room was set so low, I could hear my own voice louder than what was going over the mic. Its frankly getting ridiculous. The only people working soon will be mime artists !!!!

[Chiefy]

Dust?

You may laugh at the thought of dust but this is how theatres uses to give a light haze effect to the top of the act before we had reliable haze machines. The flyman was asked to 'bounce the borders', this would knock off the dust and dirt into the atmosphere and would create the desired effect. Doubt you could recreate this without taking a fly tower around with you!