Zero 88 Orb

[Bryson]

Interesting to note that lighting people think that external PSUs are the work of the devil, while sound people consider an external PSU to be a feature....

[peternewman]

Presumably there are some (perceived) noise reduction benefits with the external PSU? Either that or their desks are heavy enough already compared to lighting, without adding the extra weight.

[JDP]

Hmm, tempted to agree with Peternewman. I think that PSU adds 1/2 a KG at the most internally to a desk, the small Zero88 ones being a lot smaller and lighter external ones. Where as the sound ones seem to be 4U 19" efforts, that seem to weigh about 15KG. Also, the electronics in the sound ones seem to be a lot more intense that the standard PC or transformer type efforts from the lighting world. Although I would be interested to know why, the sound ones are like this.

[ianknight]

What an entertaining read!!!

 

Haven't laughed so much since the days in our Green Room (when I worked in theatre) when someone from management suggested we do get-outs during normal office hours to save overtime!!!

 

The OP suggested a hypothesis and then multiple posters proceeded to trash a desk no one (outside of Zero88) has seen yet and to denigrate Zero88 and it's products - or did I misread something?

 

I can't wait for the next installment!!!

 

Oh and I'll nail my colours to the mast - I've used GeniusPro on 430's and 520i' as well as Illusion 120, 500 and Sirius 250/500 and I liked them all (in theatre and live event). In fact, I liked them so much I considered buying an Illusion out of my own pocket because it did much of what I wanted to do with GeniusPro

[gareth]

Whoah there! No-one's "trashing" the Orb - most people are simply voicing opinions formed on the basis of what they know about the desk, which is mainly what's on the website and what they saw on the prototype at ABTT. I'm reserving judgement on most aspects of it until I actually get to see one in the flesh.

 

But at the end of the day, it's like cars, isn't it? Perhaps you could liken Zero88 desks to Vauxhalls - very wide mass-market appeal, functional cars that'll get you from A to B, but while most people are happy with them (perhaps because they don't need anything more) some people aren't, and there are other alternatives that are actually much better in many ways. (FWIW, I don't like Vauxhalls, either! :))

[dbuckley]

Presumably there are some (perceived) noise reduction benefits with the external PSU? Either that or their desks are heavy enough already compared to lighting, without adding the extra weight.

 

Primarily, its because power supplies break. So external PSUs means easy to keep a spare and almost instant swapover. You even get high availability with some kit.

[gareth]

Primarily, its because power supplies break.

Good quality, adequately-specified ones don't. Our three Strand 500-series desks get some very heavy use, and have been in service for several years - to the best of my knowledge none of the PSUs have ever had to be replaced.

[smalljoshua]

What was the influencing factor that prompted the change to an external PSU for Zero 88 anyway?

 

The Sirius had in Internal one and it seems it is only the newer desks without them.

 

Josh

[peternewman]

Primarily, its because power supplies break.

Good quality, adequately-specified ones don't.

This all gets a bit involved though, lighting can use a bog standard mass market switchmode PSU, whereas the majority of sound PSUs will still try and avoid them I'd have thought, to avoid all the horrible noise they put out on the Earth (I've looked at an example circuit on a scope, it's not pretty). Certainly the Cadac PSU I've got a circuit diagram for is a linear PSU, although its also quite old. Sound will definitely have more specialised requirements regarding rails than a lighting desk would. Anyway switchmode and non switchmode will have different failure modes and other considerations. A switchmode PSU is most likely to fail at switch on, at which point changeover time probably won't be too much of an issue.

 

On a slightly rambling and rather OT side note, I wonder if with a fully digital multicore, having a switchmode PSU at the desk end may start to become acceptable, as all the signals would only be digital there.

[tom_the_LD]

The Sirius had in Internal one and it seems it is only the newer desks without them.

Slightly off topic. Our Sirius at school (which does indeed have an Internal PSU) gets very heavily "used and abused" and we have never had any problems with it. Avo desks also have an Internal PSU thinking about it.

 

As the desk is aimed at the theatrical market though, as others have said, it won't make a great deal of difference if it is internal or external as the desk is going to be sitting in one place for large periods of time and not going to be 'thrown around' as much as one in a Rock and Roll setting would. Consequently, the PSU can sit quite happily under the desk without the danger of being kicked. Also thinking about it, stuff at a one night Rock and Roll gig is more likely to get lost than in a theatrical setting, and so it is cheaper to buy a new IEC - 13A lead than a whole new PSU.

 

 

 

Tom

[smalljoshua]

Depending on how much the Zero 88 PSU's cost it might be cheaper to have an external PSU apposed to an internal one.

 

The Strand 500 has a bog standard PC PSU inside it. If you want a good reliable one it they cost about £40 from Ebuyer or similar. Factoring in the time to change it over. I'd guess 1/2 hour from delivery of part to working desk, so say £6-10 depending on who replaces it.

Total £45-50

 

If the Zero 88 PSU is less than this then it works out cheaper than having an internal PSU.

 

Also Being external there is one less fan on the actual Desk meaning one less Vent to block.

 

There is also more room in the case for important things like PCBs and the likes.

 

There is no longer the head source of a PSU inside the case meaning less wear and tear on other components from heat.

 

</Ramblings>

 

Josh

[HobitLight]

Depending on how much the Zero 88 PSU's cost

According to the price list it's £80 for all of the desks apart from the Level 6 at £35 and Frog2 at £239.

[smalljoshua]

Ahh well. Then zero just need to make their PSUs cheaper to bring them in line with what an internal would cost.

 

Josh

[tom_the_LD]

Josh,

 

I agree with what you are saying but the point I was more referring to was the likelihood of it getting lost at gigs. With an internal it's just a new 13A - IEC, with an external PSU it's the whole PSU to be replaced.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Tom

[gareth]

Josh, I think that in your earlier post (1.25am today) you're missing the point a bit. Your comments are all quite valid ... however, you have to bear in mind that Zero88's product manager stated in this thread, a few posts before yours, that the advantages of an external PSU as he saw them are that it's easier and quicker to replace when it breaks, and more convenient to carry a spare. To me, this says that swapping a dead PSU is something that Zero88 expect you to have to do from time to time.

 

Our Strand 530, on the other hand, has been running on the same PSU for over 11 years now - no benefit in having it external because Strand clearly didn't expect it to need replacing on a regular basis! (Having said that, the other day the PSU fan started to do a fairly accurate impression of a Boeing 747 starting its take-off run, so I suspect a replacement might well be on the cards ... but hey, after 11 years of almost daily use I think we can make allowances!)