iamchristuffin Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi all, I've just started as DSM for a Dance Show, the them of which is 'Dreams'. One of the ideas the choreographer has had, for a fantasy dream, is about 10-15 girls, walking onstage, carrying high heels and a hand bag. Partyway through the dance, they put the heels on, and continue the dance. The choreographer said "The highest you can walk in." Obviously, I'm a bit worried that they'll twist/break their ankle, but I'm not sure what to do. I've told the choreographer my concerns, and she said "Oh they'll be fine." What can I do - any ideas?? Thanks very much Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 It's up to the Dancers to decide for themselves what heels they can dance in. If they're real dancers, you'll find that the answer is "very high indeed". It's part of the training they do - leave it to them. They probably think your ladder looks scary. (or whatever...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Sod the dancers,what about the state of the dance floor after 10-15 twirleys in high heels have been leaping about on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 To be honest, it's between the choreographer, the twirlies, and maybe production management - not really something that the DSM should be getting involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidLee Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 To be honest, it's between the choreographer, the twirlies, and maybe production management - not really something that the DSM should be getting involved in. Except that Chris is an A-level student so that it is quite possible that the choreographer may be either a student or else a teacher with a tenuous grasp on reality and the dancers are quite likely to be inexperienced young girls with no concept of health and safety matters - in which case Chris may be the only voice of reason. If that is the case then I would suggest that you have a quiet word with a college higher authority expressing your concerns and suggest that in your humble opinion you think that this is an issue that requires a proper risk assessment. You need to be careful that you come across as a responsible team player and not just a trouble maker. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 If they are pro dancers and a pro choreographer then they will dance in heels as easily as they dance in flats. If they are untrained dancers with an inexperienced choreographer then your concerns are justified, not least that they will all supply different heights of heel! However if it is to be rehearsed by choreographers and team leaders then it isn't your problem having already said your bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 ...it is quite possible that the choreographer may be either a student or else a teacher with a tenuous grasp on reality Not really, but you're getting the idea! ...in which case Chris may be the only voice of reason. :) If that is the case then I would suggest that you have a quiet word with a college higher authority expressing your concerns and suggest that in your humble opinion you think that this is an issue that requires a proper risk assessment. You need to be careful that you come across as a responsible team player and not just a trouble maker. Thank you David, I'll take that advice in. To gareth: There is no PM! There's A DSM, a choreographer, dancers, sound and lighting. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 There is no PM! There's A DSM, a choreographer, dancers, sound and lighting. That's it.Oh, right. So as deupty stage manager, who are you deputising for, exactly? That being the case, all I can offer is to echo what David said - if you have genuine health and safety concerns regarding something in the production, your best course of action is to raise your concerns with someone in authority (i.e. the member of staff in charge of the production, whatever their 'job title' may be) and explain why you're concerned. Other than that, there's not much you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave singleton Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 The only bit I can add is that we had some dancers in high heals abserloutly trash some staging pieces recently. Not to mention brand new, first time hire. Be careful, whilst you may not think it would do much, its given us a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 The only bit I can add is that we had some dancers in high heals abserloutly trash some staging pieces recently. Not to mention brand new, first time hire. Be careful, whilst you may not think it would do much, its given us a headache. :)With that in mind Link 1 Link 2 We have a load of tiny pits from only 1 or 2 girls walking on the floor, one in particular would wear them quite regularly and was not small to say the least. edit - lets try that again with working links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 the choreographer said its ok. why do we insist on questioning people in other disciplines? we'd be miffed if a dancer questioned the type of safety bonds we use. on top of that almost every school and college do "all that jazz" with high heels and sitting/standing on chairs so this isn't exactly uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidLee Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 the choreographer said its ok. why do we insist on questioning people in other disciplines? we'd be miffed if a dancer questioned the type of safety bonds we use. on top of that almost every school and college do "all that jazz" with high heels and sitting/standing on chairs so this isn't exactly uncommon.I'm sure that the band's pyrotechnician in a certain US nightclub said that the gerbs would be OK too. Maybe the outcome would have been different if "someone in a different discipline" had questioned his judgement! I've seen inappropriate light safety bonds used on 2K fresnels in a major UK theatre that I wouldn't have considered suitable for a Prelude and I wouldn't have been surprised if any dancer who may have seen them had questioned their suitability! Safety is everyone's responsibility and if an accident occurs that could have been avoided if you had spoken up "out of turn" when you were well aware of the danger then you are also responsible and indeed, if it could be proven, could even be held to be legally liable. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Safety is everybodies responsibility? agreed - however the choreographer is the expert here, not somebody from technical. I'm sick to death of interfering, but probably well meaning people questioning things outside their own sphere of competency. Would a physicist question the integrity of an expert from another science area? Would a Chiropodist comment on the type of filling material a dentist was about to use? Would a musician in the pit question the speed at which a cloth dropped in? I once had a member of wardrobe question me on how a trained Foy op was handling his rope! In this case, we have a choreographer who presumably in this circumstance is also a teacher, and has a legal duty of care - if this person says it is fine, then others should keep their noses out, unless they have the training to contradict that person. Everybody wants to be an expert on everything. The pyro example is daft! In this case, to the best of my knowledge the entire sequence of events was dissected after this incident and there were multiple failures. How on earth would having non-trainined people looking at safety issues have helped there? Next time a dancer enquires about the rating on a safety bond, I'll make sure I listen. Mots dancers don't even notice lights at all until they walk into them and realise they are hot! As for the stage manager being legally liable for a dancer toppling off her high heels? In all my years I have never ever seen high heels on a risk assessment - and I have seen many really unlikely, daft things assessed. Dancers, in my experience are excellent at detecting issues likley to impact on their performance. In my particular show, one number requires our dancers to remove their shoes and replace them - they couldn't do them up again in time, and do much of the number wth strap undone - they are perfectly aware of how this affects them, and don't consider it a safety issue - if they don't, the choreographer doesn't, then I'm very happy with this expert opinion. I have not, and will not interfere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbthegreat Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Would a musician in the pit question the speed at which a cloth dropped in? You've obviously not worked in am-dram......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Have to say this is a first...I disagree with Paulears. As the only "stage" person involved in the production I think Chris is right to air his concerns. "Safety IS everybodys business" and it is highly likely that a choreographer, even a professional, will not have taken several "stage" concerns into consideration.High heels effect a huge point-load/pressure on any surface and on a school stage might well sink into the surface. If the choreographer wants to use dancefloor it could well get torn becoming dangerous. The choreographer might not even have taken into consideration any rake/access-egress problems/low lighting levels etc. The phrase that would give me real concern is "..as high as you can walk in.." Should a choreographer use a phrase like that in a situation like this I would be concerned about phrases like "level of competence" of both the dancers and the choreographer. I personaly think that Chris should voice his concerns, without being in any way confrontational, working together with everyone else to put on a safe show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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