Guest lightnix Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Brussels pulls plug on old light bulbs Traditional light bulbs have only two years of life left after a Brussels summit declared yesterday that they will be phased out in the battle against climate change. The old-style incandescent filament bulbs will be replaced by more energy efficient compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs)... ...Calling time on the traditional bulb, first patented... in 1879, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor said: "We believe that each individual can make a genuine contribution through responsible use of light bulbs and lamps." EU sources said that driving the old bulbs off shop shelves by 2009 will be achieved by increasingly tightening the restrictions on what is legal, thereby forcing manufacturers to invest in the new technology... ...A Government spokesman said: "Switching to energy efficient light bulbs offers people the opportunity to do their bit in the fight against climate change."... ...The eco-friendly CFLs will reduce the EU's carbon emissions by up to 25 million tons a year if old-style bulbs disappear... The Government calculates that if every British household were to replace three 60 or 100 watt light bulbs with CFLs the energy saving would be greater than the power used by the country's entire street lighting network. But there are drawbacks. The new CFLs are more expensive and require more energy to make. There is also an environmental cost to be set against the energy savings. CFLs contain mercury so extra waste disposal rules may be required. Householders will also have to change their habits in other ways. They will no longer be able to throw old bulbs out in the rubbish. British officials believe that CFLs, which use 67 per cent less electricity, will appeal to the public eventually....Full story here...Have your say... Looks like the writing is on the wall, then :huh: Entertainments represents a very small market in the global scheme of things and even if we do get some kind of stay of execution, once lamp manufacturers start switching over to producing mainly low-energy sources, it will only be a matter of time before producing tungsten lamps becomes unviable for them. How will the Entertainments Industry respond to this little challenge? Will we start seeing discharge upgrades for existing lanterns, whole new product ranges, greater use of LEDs or... what??? :) Your thoughts, comments and opinions, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Come on - the full story is a telegraph attempt to make a story from woefully feeble evidence. Not that many Government intentions actually make the statute books. In this case, I'm a bit more of an optimist - I would suggest that the intention is for Joe Public to have their households more energy efficient - there are so many non-domestic uses that involve higher powers that exemptions will have to be made. Industrial and professional use where in many situations there isn't an energy efficient alternative, can't switch, even if they wanted to. I smell typical newspaper hype here. Let's wait for some real facts before we all go off on one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I smell typical newspaper hype here. Let's wait for some real facts before we all go off on one!Oooo, ooo, how long do we wait til we get another petition rolling......................................???? :huh: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Edwards Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 A collegue has just come back from New Zealand with similar claims. Apparently NZ has decided that they are also going to ban incandescent light sources in two years time. Do any of the BR members located over there have anything further they can tell us about these proposals. As Lightnix has asked, what are the results of a ban on the lighting industry? Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 We have just gone through this saga in Australia with news headlines about banning incandescent lamps in 3 years, the actual long statement from the Minister was full of loopholes,a walk through the lamp dept of your local hardware store will show how many types of lights there are to replace and the miniature ones could not be replaced.Add to that living in a green fluoro world at home and work and the horrible things that millions of switch mode power supplies would do to the grid and you have a non-runner.The more reasonable scenario of replacing some general purpose lights around the house is a good idea but the "ban" is bulldust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 The more reasonable scenario of replacing some general purpose lights around the house is a good idea but the "ban" is bulldust.This reflects my honest opinion of the plans.It's not unreasonable to expect a fair amount of take-up on the voluntary replacement of houselight bulbs - heck - I'm slowly changing those in our house as they go - but the key to making that a more feasible contribution is going to HAVE to be the reduction in price of the basic replacements. My paper - Daily Mail - noted the price of an incandescent at around 20p, with an average fluoro BC bulb over £2. Life of an incandescent - 1000hrs, fluoro 5000. The sums just don't necessarily add up therefore. It's essentially the fiscal side which will dictate whether many more people will switch - NOT the green side of the argument..... AND there's the added impact that's been brought up elsewhere that these bulbs cost more than expected in 'non-green' production than old styles..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Sorry to point out Ynot you didn't factor in the saving in electricity into your cost equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinw Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 My paper - Daily Mail - noted the price of an incandescent at around 20p, with an average fluoro BC bulb over £2Thats just the Daily Mail being clueless, as usual. You can get fluoro bulbs in John Lewis for 99p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Sorry to point out Ynot you didn't factor in the saving in electricity into your cost equation.Or (especially in a non-domestic setting) the cost of changing the lamp 5 times. Go to site, get the ladder out, change lamp, ladder away, and tea break. That's got to be an hour each time... On a more positive note, it has long been the case that the building regulations require new and substantial alterations to be wired to take only energy efficient lamps 1.43 Electric lighting systems serving these buildings should be provided with reasonably efficient lamp/luminaire combinations. A way of meeting the requirements would be to provide lighting with an initial efficacy averaged over the whole building of not less than 40 luminaire-lumens/circuit-watt. This allows considerable design flexibility to vary the light output ratio of the luminaire, the luminous efficacy of the lamp or the efficiency of the control gear. HOWEVER1.53 For the purposes of Approved Document L, the following definitions apply: a) Emergency escape lighting means that part of emergency lighting that provides illumination for the safety of people leaving an area or attempting to terminate a dangerous process before leaving an area. b) Specialist process lighting means lighting intended to illuminate specialist tasks within a space, rather than the space itself. It could include theatre spotlights, projection equipment, lighting in TV and photographic studios, medical lighting in operating theatres and doctors' and dentists' surgeries, illuminated signs, coloured or stroboscopic lighting, and art objects with integral lighting such as sculptures, decorative fountains and chandeliers. 1.54 Emergency escape lighting and specialist process lighting are not subject to the requirements of Part L.I see no reason to believe that this type of relaxation will not continue unless there is a huge change in the efficacy of LED or a as yet un-harnessed technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musht Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 My paper - Daily Mail - noted the price of an incandescent at around 20p, with an average fluoro BC bulb over £2. Life of an incandescent - 1000hrs, fluoro 5000. The sums just don't necessarily add up therefore. It's essentially the fiscal side which will dictate whether many more people will switch - NOT the green side of the argument..... Dinnae call it the Daily Wail for nothing ;-). Branded incan is a bit more than 20p and CFLs ,as Martin says, start at a quid or less. 5000 hours would be below the 8000 hours expect any major brand lamp to provide useful service for. Exception being Philps Geni`s got from Asda few months back, 47p each but lifetime struggling to reach past 1000 hours. This makes them very environmentally unfriendly especially regarding energy used in manufacture and metals contained requiring disposal. Purchase is usually smallest number in cost calculations , running costs being the biggest expense. CFL`s simply start saving money the second you plug them in, should return their purchase expense within a fraction of their usable lifetime and then continue to return savings to you. Having said that wouldn`t generally use the green horrors in living space ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 The obvious lead on from CFL is the replaceable tube cfl as currently the CFL lasts for its hours then the electronics have to be discarded along with the mercury and phosphors being reclaimed (by nature in a tip somewhere) {/cynic} So far no-one has perfected a retail product for a home fit dimmable CFL, and how many homes have dimmer switches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Sorry to point out Ynot you didn't factor in the saving in electricity into your cost equation.<_< Actually I'm happily aware of the consumption savings BUT my point was that to many of the ordinary Joe public out there that's an unseen saving - no matter HOW hard the ads try to ram it down their throat!! I appreciate the savings - that's why I've been changing my domestic bubbles over the last few months.Joe B in many cases just sees the expensive option and finks 'e knows betta and carries on with what he's always used. There are pros and cons for both sides - the incandescents are instant - many of the energy saving bulbs are slow to warm up.I bought some cheap fluoro types and hated them - as did the family. They were a VERY harsh blue tinted light - I put them in the bathroom and one in the hall and it wasn't more than a week before I had to take them out! Yes - I'm sure there ARE decent quality cheapER options out there, but my personal feeling is that the good stuff needs to come down a LOT more before the regular punters start to change their ways. On a related note - anyone seen any energy efficient options for 12v dichroics? or even 230V dichroics (same as birdie bubbles)?? Our theatre foyer is full of the LV versions and the control room uses GU10's - and I reckon we'd be best off looking at options. I've seen some LED dichroic sized bubbles, but not entirely sure whether these would be suitable for public areas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I've got LED GU10s in my house - 10 colour changing ones washing the ceiling, and white ones (which are a very strange white) in my studio. The only issue is the usual one - brightness. The running cost side is pretty pointlessfor the typical household - putting the dishwasher and washing machine on for an extra load when the kids turn up covered in mud wipes out the saving from energy saving lighting in an instant! I've recently switched back from split rate electricty to standard rate as the idea of using the heavy kit in the middle of the night just wasn't working - far too many things running all the time for it to make a difference. In my house, turning off all the computers would work much better than worrying about a few lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 As for tungsten lamps going out of manufacture, this is an EU proposal - what is the lightbulb consumption of say the US, India & China?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikienorth Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 On a related note - anyone seen any energy efficient options for 12v dichroics? or even 230V dichroics (same as birdie bubbles)?? Our theatre foyer is full of the LV versions and the control room uses GU10's - and I reckon we'd be best off looking at options. I've seen some LED dichroic sized bubbles, but not entirely sure whether these would be suitable for public areas..... LED GU10's, as supplied by MICO, and made by BELL, are nice. 3W consumption, but blue white, and not as bright as a 50W HiSpot...The 11W GU10, sold by MICO and made by Megaman, is very nice. Very bright, and quite a warmish light for a CFL source. Problem: They stick out of the ceiling by about 5-7mm, as they are considerably longer than a 50W lamp. Apparently lower wattage CFL's are shorter, but the equivalent for 50W, according to the catalogue is 11W. Not noticeable to Joe Public however, even when half a room has 50W dichroic, and half a room 11W CFL (shootout) I really like the look of the 12V LED replacements on the Wavicle website, but I am restricted by the limitations of my employer's supplier (MICO) and I feel that the price is a bit high for me to get some myself as a trial. As for the 12V CFL replacements, watch this space and await an update. I have one being sent by MICO (spot the supplier) for evaluation this week. My old venue has gone very seriously for the changing of as much lighting into CFL from tungsten, for various reasons - less heat, so the building's temperature is more controllable, less energy used (less than a third on average) and finally, and this was the clincher for me and the chief, the buyers - less frequent lamp changes!!! Hopefully we will be going the same way in my new place once our evaluation has taken place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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