Par 56 or Par 64

[tamworth]

OK, I'm still learning at the moment and I've been thrown in at the deep end. A Friend of mine has asked me to design a complete lighting rig for a concert hall for mainly Rock bands. But I have no idea that lamps to use.

The budget is limited so I was thinking 12 Par cans on a bar at the front of stage and 12 hanging above and on stage. with an additional 5 profile spots, of course it will all be ran by digital dimmer's controlled by DMX.

The venue is about the same size as the Birmingham Carling academy (if any one knows it) and I was just wondering if any one could recommend any profile spots, and suggest which Par can would be better to use, 56 short/long or a 64 short/long. there are no current installations in the venue, so I have free range as to where to put anything.

 

or alternatively if anybody can recommend a company in the Midlands who can provide this cheaply just in case I end up getting in over my head

 

any help much appreciated.

Oz

[the kid]

If you search there are a few topics about suggesting how to light a rock concert

[Ynot]

OK, I'm still learning at the moment and I've been thrown in at the deep end. A Friend of mine has asked me to design a complete lighting rig for a concert hall for mainly Rock bands.

OK - first things first.

Without some idea of the ACTUAL size of the venue it's gonna be hard to help you out.

Also useful would be the number of circuits available and dimmers (if different) and the control desk you plan to use would be of some help (though not essential at this stage).

 

Basically, however, whether you use 56's or 64's depends entirely on what you WANT to achieve.

56's are either 300 or 500 watts a piece, with 64's being 1kW so there's an obvious brightness versus power available issue there. If used as backlights, you may get away with low wattage 56's if supply is limited. Although if you expect to punch a backlight beam through the rest of a rig, then 64's would be better.

 

One option may be using Source 4 pars, or the pirated multi-pars - only 575W and in some ways a bigger punch than a 1K par 64.

 

Rock gigs are, in some ways, very much simpler to rig for as there's not a great worry about spill or shadow - which is contrary to most theatre style rigs. It doesn't even need to match perfectly in some cases.

Rock lighting is primarily about effect, and making the lighting states compliment the music.

 

I guess from your ID that you might be FROM Tamworth, yes? In which case if you want to come over to my (admittedly small) venue we can have a chat about your options. Which venue is it that your actually looking at?

 

Another word of caution, however. You say you're just starting out and learning, but you're on an 'industry related course' and you've been asked by a friend to spec and run this gig, presumably solo....?

I'd suggest you take care with what you promise this friend, and don't try to step too far beyond your means and experience at this point. I'd also recommend that you look at getting experienced assistance to work with you - that way hopefully you'll learn from example maybe, rather than trial & error!

 

PM me if you want to come over for a chat anyway.

 

Tony

 

Edit:

Hmm.... 666th post ..... Don't I get a horned devil smiley, or something???

;)

[mumbles]

there are no current installations in the venue, so I have free range as to where to put anything.

Does this imply there isn't anything to habg lights from, or just that there aren't any lights hanging at the moment.

[tamworth]

there are no current installations in the venue, so I have free range as to where to put anything.

Does this imply there isn't anything to habg lights from, or just that there aren't any lights hanging at the moment.

There is nothing in the room, just a stage and a bar. I get to place lighting bars any where I like. there are no dimmers or desk or any wiering so its a compleater blank canves

[Thirdtap]

'lo

Just read your post and before you get swamped with specs for lighting I would suggest you get some different companies in for this job.

if anybody can recommend a company ....just in case I end up getting in over my head

This is a very good attitude to understand that assistance maybe better than going ahead on your own.

If you get companies in try and be around on site for the visits, ask questions about the quotes and see if you can work with them on the install this should teach you a lot. Items they will have experience in are power distribution for lighting and also clean supply for sound.

 

You have asked for recommendations for suitable lights. Of course there are several suitable I can think of such as source 4 profiles but if your budget is limited I think you should try the equipment second hand lists, this will dictate what is available to you. Some strand and CCT lights should be quite cheap and also have spare parts available. Sometimes it is better to go for older than cheap and new. 743 Fresnel can be repaired and easily serviced by yourself where as some newer lights if they become broken are costly or not worth repairing.

 

Now for a few questions;

What is the running budget for the venue if there is one? If things are being done cheaply in the first place has money been set aside for the operational aspects? Par 64 lamp costs from £20 to £40 depending who and how many you buy. More than a few projects I have worked on have been OK for the set up but once open things change. For example the lighting rig shrank because the budget did not cover enough replacement lamps.

 

Will companies be bringing in their own equipment? It may be worth looking at power outlets on stage being available for them.

 

Not able to personally recommend any Northern lighting companies myself.

[Meduza]

The difference between the 56 and 64 is the size and the power.

 

long/short nose isnt as big factor, the short nosed have a little more sidespill and therefore does not have as nice beams (in my opinion).

 

I nearly allways go for Long nose PAR 64 Cans with 1000w bulbs installed as long as the power isnt very limited.

 

You can choose between the different types of PAR64 bulbs:

 

1000w:

CP60 (Very Narrow Spot)

CP61 (Narrow Spot)

CP62 (Medium Flood)

CP95 (Wide Flood)

 

If Power is limited you can use 500w bulbs instead and get less output

 

500w:

CP86 (Very Narrow Spot)

CP87 (Narrow Spot)

CP88 (Medium Flood)

 

If your limit is at these 24 parcans I would have chosen 12 Long nose Par64 cans with CP62 from the front of the stage for lighting the band and and 12 with CP60 overhead to create the ever-so-popular light beams on rock stages.

 

But that just my personal ideas, not anything god set in stone...

 

Profile spots, anything that isn't the 30-year-old-not-so-good-serviced Silhouettes I use way to often...

[mumbles]

There is nothing in the room, just a stage and a bar. I get to place lighting bars any where I like. there are no dimmers or desk or any wiering so its a compleater blank canves

To clarify, are you hanging barrels/IWB's, or putting up t bar stands, as this will affect the advice the others are giving.

[tamworth]

There is nothing in the room, just a stage and a bar. I get to place lighting bars any where I like. there are no dimmers or desk or any wiering so its a compleater blank canves

To clarify, are you hanging barrels/IWB's, or putting up t bar stands, as this will affect the advice the others are giving.

 

I plan to put hanging barrels/IWB's, but it depends on budget I will stress the need for hanging barrels/IWB's for health and safety issues because lots of people in the room make t bar stands not very practical.

[Brian]

I plan to put hanging barrels/IWB's, but it depends on budget I will stress the need for hanging barrels/IWB's for health and safety issues...

Which opens up another line of conversation as to how you'll be accessing the lanterns once they are up.

[niclights]

I'm going to brush over the more technical aspects of how these are rigged which, if permanent, will obviously need to be arranged by qualified professionals. It might be easier intially to use Manfrotto wind-up stands making maintainance and gelling very easy, but you will still need to be able to focus for which you must observe the working at height safety regulations.

 

Look at budget and power availability.

 

Personally I would forget the 56's and just go for standard rock'n'roll long nose 64's. They are all very cheap. Lighting from above is not particularly effective for rock and rarely used:

Two bars of six behind for beams (CP61) and two bars at the front or sides (CP62).

2 dimmers each 6x10A with 2x Socapex outs with the sides and backs paired.

4 suitable length runs of soca.

Some gels!

1 x 63A TPNE (three-phase) supply. Though not strictly necessary this will give you room for expansion. 24 x 1000W all used at once = roughly 100A. If supply is a problem then you can of course load with 500W lamps and/or make sure they are never all on at the same time!

1 x smoke or haze machine. This is essential to make any use of the 12 lamps from behind.

 

That, along with some sort of desk, will give you a very good basic rock setup that you can build on in the future.

[mumbles]

Are you looking to buy or hire the kit. If you're going to buy it, then budget about a third for the lantern, a third for lamp and rigging, and a third for maintainance. On this basis 24 pars will come to something like £2000, reckoning on a cheap par 64 for about £30. Add on 4 betapacks, and a frog and 4 source fours, then you'll be looking at about 6 grand. Obviously the list is just an example, and you could look at cheaper alternatives, or second hand, but still quite a bit to outlay.

 

On this basis, I'm assuming you're are talking about hiring kit, and so it would be worth talking to your local company to see what they have in terms of dimmers and desks as well as lanterns.

[Nick S]

I plan to put hanging barrels/IWB's, but it depends on budget I will stress the need for hanging barrels/IWB's for health and safety issues because lots of people in the room make t bar stands not very practical.

 

There is nothing in the room, just a stage and a bar. I get to place lighting bars any where I like.

 

 

No you don't! If you're not using stands, you get to place lighting bars where the structural engineer says you can! ;)

 

If you're planning on installing bars onto the ceiling, you'll need to remember to budget for an engineer (or more likely, a third party company to look around and do the install for you).

[Andrew C]

Don't forget to allow for things like asbestos surveys (if the venue hasn't got a register), CDM, electrical installation etc.

 

Back on topic, if the room is of any size, go for 64s. As others have said 56s can be used for "eye candy" but for real punch, use 1kW lanterns.

[SeanT]

1 x smoke or haze machine. This is essential to make any use of the 12 lamps from behind.

 

Can I suggest another, or a big fan ;)