Opera house ban moving of tallescope

[Guy]

I assume that when a tallescope is used as the manufacturers intended, IE static, with the outriggers fully engaged, then only one person is required to focus and no-one is required to be at the bottom. So, in order to facilitate focussing within a reasonable period, all that is needed are 3 crew with 3 tallescopes - one to focus, say 3 lamps, while the the other two manoeuvre the other two 'scopes in position and one of the crew then climbs the second scope in readiness for the next batch of lamps to be focussed, perhaps on different lighting bars. The process would then continue.It would be cheaper than using 5 crew and the fatigue problem, although greater than using one person, would still be manageable.

Quite where you'd store the bloody contraptions is entirely another matter!

[Just Some Bloke]

I assume that when a tallescope is used as the manufacturers intended, IE static, with the outriggers fully engaged, then only one person is required to focus and no-one is required to be at the bottom. So, in order to facilitate focussing within a reasonable period, all that is needed are 3 crew with 3 tallescopes ... {snip} ... It would be cheaper than using 5 crew and the fatigue problem, although greater than using one person, would still be manageable.

Quite where you'd store the bloody contraptions is entirely another matter!

 

Great piece of lateral thinking but 2 major problems:

 

1) An initial outlay of £5000 - £6000 for the extra 2 'scopes (depending on size)

2) If there is any set or furniture on stage how on earth will you also fit 3 scopes with their outriggers out?

 

Nice try, though!

[Guy]

I assume that when a tallescope is used as the manufacturers intended, IE static, with the outriggers fully engaged, then only one person is required to focus and no-one is required to be at the bottom. So, in order to facilitate focussing within a reasonable period, all that is needed are 3 crew with 3 tallescopes ... {snip} ... It would be cheaper than using 5 crew and the fatigue problem, although greater than using one person, would still be manageable.

Quite where you'd store the bloody contraptions is entirely another matter!

 

Great piece of lateral thinking but 2 major problems:

 

1) An initial outlay of £5000 - £6000 for the extra 2 'scopes (depending on size)

2) If there is any set or furniture on stage how on earth will you also fit 3 scopes with their outriggers out?

 

Nice try, though!

 

Even at £5-6k spread over several years that is a huge saving compared with wages for just a few months.

Access should be thought of at the design stage - perhaps the set designer/builder should put tallescope outrigger size slots/removable panels in the set at strategic points.

[curzonproduct]

Yes, there are tallies in NZ. The Edge have at least one, if not two.

I am not looking forward to the day when I have to go up it......

 

David

Far rather a tallescope than some wobbly-ass ladder. Have you been up a fully extended zarges? :D

 

Sebastian

 

 

I may being dumb but what did the designer of the tallescope think they were designing? A movable ladder with a person size cage at the top - If it wasn't for moving people then what was it for?

 

Sebastian

[Thirdtap]

'lo

 

'scope statistics - At least four venues I have worked in have used scopes with no reported falls or accidents even when it was not being used. The closest to a hazard was a scope that was taken apart after every show as there was not the room to store it complete in the venue. It was only used to focus the front of house lights and also hang speakers. These issues that hopefully have been addressed as there wasn't always a tech or competent person around to check the amateur company had put it together properly.

 

I have seen and heard about more accounts of accidents being caused by items being dropped from the basket than accidents from people moving the scope.

 

What about the issue of moving a genie lift (or VPP lift) with someone in the basket? The instructions state not to move the unit whilst extended, what are other peoples take on this? If you were on tour and went to a venue with a genie instead of a 'scope would you still insist on being moved around to focus lights or would you focus as many lights as possible lower get moved then raise the platform again?

[Bryson]

Most genies have an interlock that prevents you from moving the device when it is extended, so I suspect the point is irrelevant.

[david.elsbury]

Most genies have an interlock that prevents you from moving the device when it is extended, so I suspect the point is irrelevant.

Not at all trying to argue, FWIW the genies (and scissor lifts) I've had experience with using have moved when the basket is up, albeit a lot slower.

 

:D

[J Pearce]

As far as I can see there is no safety hazard with having to lower and raise the platform on a genie though, unlike climbing up and down the tallescope it shouldn't tire the rigger. It is merely an inconvenience.

 

However it will slow focusing down, which will cause problems for fast turnover shows, and potentially lower the technicians wage or put ticket prices up, as the technicians will be working for longer.

 

I suppose you could claim the extended focusing time could tire the focuser leading to over-tiredness, but I feel that is somewhat stretching it.

[Roderick]

But then you have these contraptions:

http://www.nesstudioequipment.com/imx/equipment/jlgvp20_pic.jpg

http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0070926401446_LG.jpg

And whilst you can drive these around at full 6 metre extension (manufacturers' spec here) I haven't been game to actually do that.

And because you are not actually climbing, why wouldn't you just lower, move and go up again? Yes, it would take a bit longer but maybe that is just the price we have to pay to do the job safer.....

[Rob]

Not at all trying to argue, FWIW the genies (and scissor lifts) I've had experience with using have moved when the basket is up, albeit a lot slower.

 

Are we talking about personnel lifts like the IWP or Scissor lifts though?

[greateastern]

I only recently felt confident enough to be moved around in the tallie cage but now I am willing to do that the bigger danger I find is the lack of space in the cage. When you have to take lanterns down there is barely space for rigger and and a source 4 profile in one of them, I've never had to move one of our selecon pacifics thankfully but do not look forward to the day I have to!

 

Andy

[johnhuson]

Not at all trying to argue, FWIW the genies (and scissor lifts) I've had experience with using have moved when the basket is up, albeit a lot slower.

 

;)

 

Think this is the age old problem of referring to a piece of equipment generically by a manufacturers name rather than it's actual name, like calling a Vacuum Cleaner a Hoover.

 

I believe David is getting confused between an Individual Work Platform like this:-

 

http://www.genielift.com/pimg/iwp.gif

 

Which in general are not designed to be moved whilst elevated, with Scissor Lifts (Flying Carpets) like this:-

 

http://www.genielift.com/pimg/gs1930.jpg

 

or Self-Propelled Booms (Cherry Pickers) like this:-

 

http://www.genielift.com/pimg/z30.jpg

 

Which in general are designed to be moved at height, and generally are self propelled and controlled by the operator at the top. Though there are exceptions to the rule in all cases. Would also like to point out (to cover my back!) that Genie are not the only manufacturer of access equipment like this.

 

But as disscussed in detail above, Scissor Lifts and Self-Propelled booms are often restrictive in a theatre situation due to floor loadings or raked stages. Though we do use them extensively in the concert & events industry where this isn't a restriction.

 

One advantage in my mind over powered access equipment over a Tallescope is that there is a requirement to be able to demonstrate training and compentancy in the operation and use of these items. Where as (as far as I'm aware) there is no such requirement for a Tallescope other than basic working at height training. I'm prepared to be corrected on this one though as I'm not expert in Tallescope's, haven't used one since I stopped working regularly in the Theatre world about 6 or 7 years ago!

[Just Some Bloke]

What can sometimes be achieved on an IWP (Genie) is that the legs are tightened to allow the cradle to rise to working height, then the legs loosened to allow it to move. If the operator does not come down in between, they can be moved whilst at height, they just can't go any higher (the cut out only affects the motor - you can descend or the whole thing can be pushed along without power).

 

HOWEVER, this is not permitted by the manufacturers and anyone doing this is in direct violation of the operating instructions - thus almost certainly uninsured.

 

It is perfectly possible, but not recommended.

[Roderick]

HOWEVER, this is not permitted by the manufacturers and anyone doing this is in direct violation of the operating instructions - thus almost certainly uninsured.

 

Sorry, have to disagree here. According to JLG's documentation found here you can quite legally drive their IVP around at full extension.

I am not trying to promote a brand, but if they can manufacture someting that can do the job, why can't others?

The weight may still be a problem, but 1000kg is not too unrealistic even if you would have to put some ply down to spread the pointload. Quite frankly, would you like to work on a stage where that would be a problem?

As I said in an earlier post, it freaks me out to drive these things around at full extension, there is just something that feels wrong being up 6 metres with such a small base, but there are designed to do that.

And the added bonus is that you drive these things yourself from the basket, saving on 'sit & push' labour. But please don't operate these when you are alone on the stage, always have a ground support person to stop you getting into or help you getting out of trouble.

[AndrewR]

HOWEVER, this is not permitted by the manufacturers and anyone doing this is in direct violation of the operating instructions - thus almost certainly uninsured.

 

Sorry, have to disagree here. According to JLG's documentation found here you can quite legally drive their IVP around at full extension.

 

SNIP!

 

don't operate these when you are alone on the stage, always have a ground support person to stop you getting into or help you getting out of trouble.

 

 

 

Just to try and keep it clear. The driveable JLG you are referring to is an Axxessor and is a VPP (vertical personnel platform) as opposed to the fixed IWP types. It requires a different type of training from IPAF (my licence is for VPP's)

 

It can indeed be driven at full extension, which puts your feet at 6 meters. It feels a bit odd the first time, but most of the 950kg weight is in the base (lead, I think) You can even extend the basket so you are standing in front of the front wheels. However it cant be used on a raked stage, and the point loads may well be over what older venues can handle. And will damage any floor edge or woodwork not strong enough (hence the need for someone to watch you dont drive onto something like a stage trap!). Oh and its rather pricey!

But its very handy to drive along a bar focusing lights as you go!