Safety Bonds and School

[robloxley]

...in other words, if a hook clamp is being used to raise or lower a load it is covered by LOLER but once it's used to fix a load in place then it no longer falls within its scope.

 

Discuss....

Our houselights are a number of Par38 fittings rigged permanantly on 2 fixed barrels that run the length of the auditorium over the aisles. They don't have safety bonds & why should they - if they were light fittings screwed to the ceiling then the discussion to attach safety bonds would never come up?

[slim_mcslim]

a few thoughts...

 

whats the point in putting safety bonds on t-bars on stands as in event of primary suspension failure the bond would just slide off the stand

You could have a T-bar at 50m height

well that would be a very large stand to hold a T-bar at 50m!!! most times when lighting stands are used with T-bars they are towards the edge of the room and people tend not to walk or sit under them so are very unlikely to have a rogue fixture fall on them. What is more likely is the stand falling/getting knocked over at which point all the fixtures are now on the floor, so maybe you should install wall anchors to fix the stand to?

 

the Klik connector range as sold by RS and often used for industrial light fittings have a SWL of 5kg in the plug and socket, and I have seen in numerous installations with light fittings just dangling by their cable from the Klik socket and this is good enough for installation use!!!

[AaronHorn]

a few thoughts...

 

whats the point in putting safety bonds on t-bars on stands as in event of primary suspension failure the bond would just slide off the stand

You could have a T-bar at 50m height

well that would be a very large stand to hold a T-bar at 50m!!! :) most times when lighting stands are used with T-bars they are towards the edge of the room and people tend not to walk or sit under them so are very unlikely to have a rogue fixture fall on them. What is more likely is the stand falling/getting knocked over at which point all the fixtures are now on the floor, so maybe you should install wall anchors to fix the stand to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Went to Maplin the other day and they had a T stand set up with two moving mirror lights... With one safety chain between them, that is the chain was clipped onto one light, wrapped round the bar (like you'd run a cable maybe) then clipped to the other. Well at least they tried ;). Surely this isn't a good way of doing it?

[Brian]

Went to Maplin the other day and they had a T stand set up with two moving mirror lights... With one safety chain between them, that is the chain was clipped onto one light, wrapped round the bar (like you'd run a cable maybe) then clipped to the other. Well at least they tried :). Surely this isn't a good way of doing it?

 

[devils advocate]

Given that the most likely scenario is that someone will knock the stand over, it matters not one bit if the lantern has a safety.

[/devils advocate]

[peternewman]

Went to Maplin the other day and they had a T stand set up with two moving mirror lights... With one safety chain between them, that is the chain was clipped onto one light, wrapped round the bar (like you'd run a cable maybe) then clipped to the other. Well at least they tried :). Surely this isn't a good way of doing it?

 

[devils advocate]

Given that the most likely scenario is that someone will knock the stand over, it matters not one bit if the lantern has a safety.

[/devils advocate]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Being even more of a devils advocate surely its highly unlikely for any lantern's fixing to just fail. Although saying that (and making my original point completely invalid) a friend of mine told me he once had a lantern fall down, this was when he was back at school (60's or something I guess) and he had rigged some lights, but they were by a curtain or the curtain got moved or something, and as it was opened and closed it twisted the lantern round and on one of the later shows it fell down as the bolt had come undone and narrowly missed a teacher. So a warning it can happen, so don't risk it, could you live with that sort of mistake for the rest of your life?

 

Also Maplin currently have an offer on for safety bonds and hook clamps, I'll say no more.

 

PN

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Can I ask is it stil legal to use the chain type. I heard that now only the metal rope kind can be used.

 

Daniel

[mostlyharmless]

I dont see how they let you not use saftey bonds/ chains.

 

Ive had a member of senior management stand in our school hall and inspect every light to check it has one on.

 

But then I know what you mean about the lack of funding. We have £600ish of mic's that have no leads to plug them in with! :(

[gareth]

Can I ask is it stil legal to use the chain type. I heard that now only the metal rope kind can be used.

As I understand it, if your lanterns currently have the chain-type safety already fitted then you can continue to use them. However, if you're buying new safeties they must be of the wire bond type and must be rated. That's just my understanding of the situation, though, and it's not something into which I've looked in any kind of depth, so if anyone knows any different please do shout out!

[Modge]

 

<snip> 

As I understand it, if your lanterns currently have the chain-type safety already fitted then you can continue to use them. However, if you're buying new safeties they must be of the wire bond type and must be rated. That's just my understanding of the situation, though, and it's not something into which I've looked in any kind of depth, so if anyone knows any different please do shout out! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats my understanding also and why our new safety bonds are indeed safety bonds. I was led to believe this was because it is far easier to tell if a safety bond is damaged with out x-raying it than it is a chain, which is impossible to spot damage on unless it is really severe.

[the kid]

Also if I'm not mistaken because a chain is likely to break more because of the links, where as a bond is 1 long line of metal.

[Chris Higgs]

Safety chains were not preferred because the hook (typically a 'crue' hook, one with a tail inserted into the chain end link and bent over) was a great deal weaker than the chain. In other words, the chain wasn't so bad, but the hooks broke. Wire rope and a better quality connector was the practical solution.

There is a British Standard for luminaire safety bond anchors which gives a specification, but I can't find the number!

Rope Assemblies literature used to quote it.

[s-p]

I don't know if the original issue has been resolved yet but I'm a technican at my school and we have safeties on everything (sometimes even 2), as of course it should be. I'm entirely sympathetic about budget issues, and I understand school technicians feel they just need to get on and complete the job, but, as many others have said here, you cannot open a show and have lanterns without any secondary form of suspension. Simply refuse to do the work, and try and persuade fellow technicians to do likewise. Make enough fuss, refuse to work, and then the school will have a problem. They won't be able to get anyone else in to do it because they apparently don't have the funds, and they don't have the safeties!

You say you're getting paid, I imagine not that much, and it is so not worth the risk, albeit small, of a lantern killing someone. As I've psoted elsewhere we had a lens fall from a lantern the other day - I've done the only responsible thing, and derigged all similar lanterns for inspection. Yeah I know time is often very tight for school technicians, but you have to follow the advice of others here, go above the school.

 

sp

[Freddie]

eah I know time is often very tight for school technicians, but you have to follow the advice of others here, go above the school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely, thanks to a pre-booked (and forgotten about) PATing session, we had to derig the entire hall on the day of a disco.

[V.A.]

 

<snip> 

As I understand it, if your lanterns currently have the chain-type safety already fitted then you can continue to use them. However, if you're buying new safeties they must be of the wire bond type and must be rated. That's just my understanding of the situation, though, and it's not something into which I've looked in any kind of depth, so if anyone knows any different please do shout out! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats my understanding also and why our new safety bonds are indeed safety bonds. I was led to believe this was because it is far easier to tell if a safety bond is damaged with out x-raying it than it is a chain, which is impossible to spot damage on unless it is really severe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh, I think that the wires are probably more "safe" than the chains, however as they are so thin they are often not seen when doing a visual rig inspection pre-show. A venue I did some work with once got a severe warning for not having a safety bond on a light, when infact it did have a wire, they just didn't see it when checking.

[dfinn]

Just to dig this back up Can I ask is safety bonding a legal requirement or just recommended practice. If it is a legal requirement is there an online link to show this?

 

Thanks

 

Daniel