Any Ideas?

[willpower]

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but it has helped me sort out a fair few problems I've had in the past!

I've just turned 16, and am still at school. I run all our school discos and have quite a lot of responsibility in and around school (I can be trusted to do responsible jobs, dont like talking about myself in this way, sounds big headed, but I think I have to put it before I get my head bitten off for being too young and wanting to do things I shouldnt or that arent advised...). What I'm trying to say is I'm not the sort of 16 year old lout that's going to fire the pyrotechnics if it's not safe to do so, or muck about with it to show off to my friends. I think I know when it's not safe to do fire it, and we also have technicians at school who rigorously check over the rig that we've done (and help with setting it up) before the disco goes ahead. If I were to be firing the pyros, and for whatever reason it wasnt safe, I'm not the sort of person that would fire it anyway because "the show must go on" or whatever. I know if it's not safe, dont fire!!

Anyway, I have been looking at the idea of using pyrotechnics as part of the visual effects that we have. I have 2 problems, one is budget and the other is thee pyrotechnics controller. We do all the discos for charity, but could probably find the money for pyrotechnics, if you have any suggestions for where the cheapest place to get basic pyrotechnics from that would be greatly appreciated!

As for the controller, well I looked at it and thought "help!". It belongs to the school, and for some reason the safety key switch has been removed and a simple toggle switch has been put in its place, which seems rediculous if not illegal! Is it illegal? and is there anywhere where I could buy a lemaitre keyswitch and key to maybe replace it (or get the AVA technician to!).

Also, has anyone got any cost effective cheap effects that would look good in discos for 10 - 14 year olds? We have a big hall, so it needs to be big scale!

Many thanks,

Will :o

[Bryson]

For the Pyro stuff read this. The consensus is that 18 is a minimum age for operating pyros.

[Andrew C]

As to the key switch, either have it sent to the manufacturer for repair, or get one of the technicians to fit a key switch that only allows the key to be removed in the OFF position. It doesn't need to be anything fancy.

[lukew]

Get the keyswitch from RS components http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/subRange...heID=uknetscape

The key can only be removed in the off position.

[Aran2000]

Pyro's during a disco for 10-14 year olds will need some careful planning.

 

Firstly you'd need to consider the fact that the event isn't choreographed, and so there's increased likelihood that someone does something unexpected whilst the pyro fires, or that you don't notice someone near to, or within the pyro safety zone.

 

Secondly, have you considered that using pyro's in amongst young children may provoke panic? In a normal theatrical environment, the performers should (hopefully!) have some awareness of pyro cues, and as such, will be prepared for the situation. In your disco, that's not going to be the case.

 

I think the above issues are distinctly different from the safety idea's you've proposed so far (visual checks of the pyro firing area), but perhaps I'm over reacting...

 

Alex.

[robert morley]

You cant beet a good old theatrical flash with loud report, flames or jets. me I would go for the flash (cheep and cheerful) but if you go for the flash you must first get the operate flash pod

2 pin for Lemaitre again I would go for Lemaitre.

Hope it helps. :o ps play safe and LEGAL

[electronicsuk]

Re the keyswitch, you could replace it with a 1/4" jack socket and use a shorted jack plug as the key. Whenever the plug is removed you know the system is disarmed, plus you have the extra benefit or being able to make a new key if you ever lose one. I suppose there could be problems if anyone was stupid enough to plug the firing panel into the sound system, but it probably isn't very likely.

[PhilT]

I suppose there could be problems if anyone was stupid enough to plug the firing panel into the sound system, but it probably isn't very likely.

 

BUT what happens if someone does?!?!?!? :huh: :o :o

[Bryson]

Re the keyswitch, you could replace it with a 1/4" jack socket and use a shorted jack plug as the key. Whenever the plug is removed you know the system is disarmed, plus you have the extra benefit or being able to make a new key if you ever lose one. I suppose there could be problems if anyone was stupid enough to plug the firing panel into the sound system, but it probably isn't very likely.

 

Do not do this. Just because something would technically work, that doesn't make it a good idea. Use a keyswitch as suggested (and as originally designed into the system.) As Phil says, it is possible that someone would plug that jack in.

[electronicsuk]

I suppose there could be problems if anyone was stupid enough to plug the firing panel into the sound system, but it probably isn't very likely.

 

BUT what happens if someone does?!?!?!? :huh: :o :o

 

I can't see it causing the system to fire. The jack would have to pass a fair bit of current, surely more than would be possible through a high impedance mono jack input on a desk. I'd consider this option far safer than using a key switch removeable in any position, but as you say it is not as good a solution as a key switch that locks the key in the on position.

[Brian]

I can't see it causing the system to fire. The jack would have to pass a fair bit of current, surely more than would be possible through a high impedance mono jack input on a desk. I'd consider this option far safer than using a key switch removeable in any position, but as you say it is not as good a solution as a key switch that locks the key in the on position.

But what happens if someone plugged a speaker cab in? That will certainly pass enough current to fire a pyro device.

 

Every code of practice says to use a key switch. If you want to ignore that then you'd better be prepared to justify that decision in court if anything goes wrong.

 

And let go back to the age issue. Every manufacturer's instruction says 18 as the minimum age. Every code of practice says 18. MSER says 18. Your licence from the local council willl almost certainly say 18.

[electronicsuk]

I can't see it causing the system to fire. The jack would have to pass a fair bit of current, surely more than would be possible through a high impedance mono jack input on a desk. I'd consider this option far safer than using a key switch removeable in any position, but as you say it is not as good a solution as a key switch that locks the key in the on position.

But what happens if someone plugged a speaker cab in? That will certainly pass enough current to fire a pyro device.

 

Point taken. At the end of the day though, you have to decide how likely or unlikely a given scenario is to occur. Someone could quite easily insert the cables from a pod into turret connections on an audio power amplifier, after all, the same type of connections are used on some of the LeMaitre controllers. Commonsense has to come into play at some stage, you wouldn't wire a pod into the back of an amplifier in the same way that you wouldn't insert a speaker jack into a pyro controller. That aside, follow the advice given by others and use a suitable key switch if you can get hold of one.

[willpower]

looking at some of the people who do technical stuff at my school, I wouldnt put it past them to think it a good idea to see what happens if you plug the pyro system into the sound system... I'll get the technician to put a key switch in! My only thought about getting a le maitre one would be so we could get spare keys if the key got lost, but you can cut keys and make spares etc.

As for the pyrotechnics themselves, I was thinking something along the lines of silver mini gerbs... failing that (and budget dependant!) a normal theatrical flash.

Any ideas as cheap good effects we could use?

Thanks for all the advice so far!

[djw1981]

If a teacher or H&S inspector from the council comes to a school and sees a keyswitch they will be reassured somewhat. If they see it can be started with a jackplug (they can't tell visually thats it is shorted) I cvan imagine it being banned!

[Ynot]

As for the pyrotechnics themselves, I was thinking something along the lines of silver mini gerbs... failing that (and budget dependant!) a normal theatrical flash.

Any ideas as cheap good effects we could use?

Thanks for all the advice so far!

I'll weigh in on this one.

 

a) you've made the ONLY right decision after listening to the group - a keyswitch, a keyswitch and NOTHING but a keyswitch! And yes, a properly oriented keyswitch that is only removable in the OFF position. That key belongs on a lanyard which 'lives' around the pyro-tech's neck at ALL TIMES during any operations.

 

b) Operation - Whilst I've no doubt you are sincere in your assessment of your own intentions, as I read it you are yourself still a student at the school. I would just as sincerely recommend that you DO NOT undertake the responsibility for any pyrotechnic firing as you may well find yourself falling foul of the educational rules etc should anything go awry, whether on stage or elsewhere. The Le Maitre code of practice recommends that pyro is operated by a competent adult. Whilst you may feel that you are competent, in the eyes of the law, you are NOT an adult, I'm afraid. That may sound a bit harsh, but in the litigious world we live in, truth is often just that - harsh.

 

c) Discos - Here I'm also going to rain on your parade. Whether you decide to ignore (b) or someone else takes on the role of pyro-tech, I would say that using ANY flash effect in a hall/room full of prancing kids HAS to be a big NO! There is just no way that you can GUARANTEE that a 12 year old boy isn't going to run, jump, slide or fall into the vicinity of the effect because you have no idea what they are going to do (Trust me - my daughter is 12 and I know her friends and what they do at discos!!) - As Aran says, discos are far from choreographed! Add to that the fact that you're considering gebs - high shooting, medium spread fallout and VERY smelly beasts to boot, and I would say that is a recipe for disaster!

I've run a fair few discos in my time, and the only place that you would get any 'useful' effect from a pyro would be out front of the DJ, and that puts them in the punters' arena and that makes the danger increase by a hundredfold!

 

So - in short - yes, fit a new key, DON'T fire them yourself, get a responsible adult to do so, and whatever happens, DO NOT use pyro at a disco!

 

Long rant over.

 

TD

 

EDIT - forgot to link to the Le M code of practice!