New SoundLab Dimmer

[Light Tricks]

Sorry to put a downer on this whole Chinese copy thread, but I feel I have to mention a couple of things....

 

1. No offence to CPC (I have an account which I use regularly!) but half the problem with the profesional lighting industry is companies devaluing products by 'stacking them high, selling them cheap'. There's very little or no support offered on a lot of this stuff, rarely any product in stock, and even more rarely any spares. I challenge anyone to easily get hold of a set of circuit diagrams for one of these 'budget' Showtec/Soundlab/Okeycokey2000 dimmers... Anyone found out what triacs they use - you'll need some at some point.

 

2. As far as importing goes, its relatively easy to bring a few bits in now and again for your own use. But try doing it on a regular basis when your stuff gets stuck at Customs, or you begin to get asked about import duty.... Again, its down to support. Importing like this is fine if you're just getting a couple of bits for your own use, but as soon as you start to sell to other people, it gets a whole lot more complicated.

 

3. The products that are flooding the market from the far east are sometimes not CE marked, and therefore should not be sold within the EU, but at the end of the day I expect you can buy a pack of CE mark labels (From CPC possibly!! (joke...)) and stick them on any old product. Just because something has a CE sticker, doesn't mean its been safely designed, for example low voltage cables (i.e. DMX) in the same compartment of a dimmer as the mains cabling. If the DMX cable comes free and can short to the mains this is potentially dangerous and should not pass CE, but this doesn't seem to bother a number of dimmer manufacturers.

 

The point is, you get what you pay for, if you pay next to no money for something there's probably a reason.

 

OK, Rant over!

[dbuckley]

If el cheapo dimmer from CPC fritzes itself within 12 months, it goes back and CPC replace.

 

If it susequently lets out the smoke it goes in the bin and you buy another.

 

I'll fix it for you, sure, but it'll cost you more to have me undo the screws that buying a new one so why would you?

 

But you are missing the point. You can chose to spend real money on real gear, but for those of us with limited means, the Chinese OEMs are producing adequate goods at decent prices.

 

Just take the lid off the demux with many names - it is a nicely produced piece of kit. Good quality board with decent components well assembled. Dont expect mine to fail anytime soon.

[Mush]

Sorry to put a downer on this whole Chinese copy thread, but I feel I have to mention a couple of things....

 

I challenge anyone to easily get hold of a set of circuit diagrams for one of these 'budget' Showtec/Soundlab/Okeycokey2000 dimmers... Anyone found out what triacs they use - you'll need some at some point.

 

Low cost dimmers ain`t going to put Avolites out of business, but do for applications where choice was no dimming and no lites, personally think it might help expand the market putting in peoples hands and in front of peoples eyes what lighting can do for them.

 

Apart from the MPU`s, 2 in a showtec multidim, rest is pretty standard, 75176 input, output opto isolator MOC 3021 Triacs are BTA 16. Spring clip to heatsink, soldered through board, of course no one would ever solder on to cut legs of old one.........

 

Triacs will generally blow to protect breaker even in bigger more expensive dimmers, SCR and SSR dimmers are at the top end of the price and weight scale.

 

Its not only no names that are getting their gera from the Far East, look at where some of your heavyweight electronics was actually built, screwdrivering modules together dosent count.

 

Out of interest couple pics of dusty multidim, just been sitting working for a year, only in for dusting :-)

 

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/4408/dsc009549wx.th.jpg

 

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/7753/dsc009562dk.th.jpg

 

http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/7792/dsc009609eq.th.jpg

[paulears]

If you spend a lot of money on a product you get back-up. If you buy cheap, you get the 1 year guarantee. I'm going to stand up for CPC here. If a client wants CHEAP, and I can buy it from them, I do. I have never had any problem with warranty problems. If it lasts longer than that, it's great. In response, I'd just like to point out that if you buy a cheap product for let's say, less than £200 - then it is actually uneconomic to get it repaired anyway. A day in a service department could easily cost over £100 in labour charges. Add to this two way carriage charges, and the actual time it takes. Why would you actually want to get it repaired. Buy another! From the clients perspective, they get another brand new item with another full guarantee. Business sense, or what? The repaired item could fail again - you might get a warranty on the repair, but in my experience, the second failure is often a different fault, just hurried along by the repair of the first.

 

If I'd bought a £2000 dimmer, I'd get it fixed, but we are not talking about this type of product. People like CPC, Thomann and similar make money shifting boxes. I don't expect the boys and girls at CPC or Thomann to have ever seen the thing we talk about on the phone, that isn't how they do it. The customer gets the benefit in the pocket. This I can live with!

[bruce]

I'd back up what Paul says. You pays your money and you takes your choice... There's no point in worrying about service and support on cheap gear - if it breaks, you either get it replaced under warranty, or chuck it away. That's why it costs less.

 

If I worked for a reputable company selling this sort of kit, then I'd possibly find LightTricks comments about CE marking and stickers offensive.

[Winkie]

I'd back up what Paul says. You pays your money and you takes your choice... There's no point in worrying about service and support on cheap gear - if it breaks, you either get it replaced under warranty, or chuck it away. That's why it costs less.

 

 

I agree 100%

 

The reason I want one is for a low cost dimming solution, I will not be running it around exposed lives (haha who would do that?) and I don't care if it dies after 6 months, what I do care about is getting it at the absolute cheapest price possible and that is what CPC is enabling me to do.

 

Price lowering cannot seriously undercut people in this market because there is a requirement for support and replacement parts etc that cheaper companies simply cannot provide

[Light Tricks]

I'd back up what Paul says. You pays your money and you takes your choice... There's no point in worrying about service and support on cheap gear - if it breaks, you either get it replaced under warranty, or chuck it away. That's why it costs less.

 

If I worked for a reputable company selling this sort of kit, then I'd possibly find LightTricks comments about CE marking and stickers offensive.

 

Offensive in what way exactly?.... My point was that just because something has a CE mark, doesn't mean its not crap. And also, my point wasn't about someone like most people who seem to be replying to this topic - buying a dimmer for their own use. As I implied in my previous post, if you know what you're looking at, you pays your money and takes your choice. The thing I have a problem with is resellers selling a dimmer to a customer with the '6 channels of dimming in a box' attitude. In a lot of cases the end customer either doesn't know what they're getting, or doesn't make an informed choice. They can end up with a product that fails inside a year and still no support - even though they think they paid for it.

 

How do people think that new products come about... with R&D in companies that can afford to invest in R&D. These companies are the ones who are cutting prices to try and get back some of the market share they've lost to the far east. Its simple, new products won't happen as quickly, then you'll all be moaning there's no toys to play with.

[lonfire]

it sounds like some people are infering that all chinese electronics are crap.. that is so not the case.. you just look at where some of the electronics you own is made..

 

I understand what Light Tricks is saying in some respects though because I have heard of chinese companies importing stuff to china just to copy it.. that is most definately out of order..

 

but yeah.. CPC great.. crap website :-( when I have the budget for something bigger better I'll get it and it'll no doubt do a better job and last longer than the cheap stuff..

 

rgds

chris

[Mush]

CE marking is not a gurantee of quality or even compliance, as Lighttricks has pointed out its self certified and it can be as simple as a manufacturer or importer applying a CE sticker to their product.

 

Dimming is really a mature technology, sine wave excepted, more you pay ,hardier construction, heavier power handling, bigger chokes ,more connector choices,more features, curve selection ,DMX fail memory etc, more you get.

 

Multilab wotsit dimmers are not that can see a rip-off of any major western design,The design is very competently executed, reasonably well constructed from good enough quality components at an attractive price.

 

The CE rating on the one pictured is 2A channel 8A Total, China Rating on same screenprint 4A Channel 16A total, realistically theyt will take 1kW/4A channel but wouldn`t put all channels to full at once with 4kW connected, with smaller loads all is well.

 

Now if you want to see a rip off....

 

http://www.fine99.com/Product/EN/product_d...p?productid=199

[Ynot]

This may possibly be better served as a new post, but as w've already discussed alternatives I'll stick it in here anyway.

 

This item on Ebay is for (I think) two Zero 88 Alphapacks which, whilst not DMX controlled, would suit anyone with limited means or lanterns. They'd also suit the other poster who was looking for follow spot control (haven't time to find that thread at the mo)

 

TD