Minimalist stage lighting for outdoor production.

[adam2]

No mains power is available, and a generator not wanted due to cost.

I propose home made footlights than can be simply laid on the grass, containing multiple 230 volt, 4 watt, coloured LED lamps. Blue, red, amber, and cool white. No dimming, just selective switching so as to give 3 intensities from each colour. Power from duplicated inverters, one fed from each of two vehicles that are required in any case.

Supplemented by a chandelier above and forward of the stage, fitted with 16 number 3.8 watt warm white lamps and selective switching. This chandelier is all insulated to avoid any concerns regarding earthing.

Two improvised follow spots based on 24 volt 35 watt HID vehicle headlights.

"House lighting" to be building site festoons strung between trees and fitted with 230 volt 3.8 watt lamps. These are made with twin cable and need no earthing.

The footlights are to be home made, not by myself. Wooden construction and all insulated  lamp holders to avoid any need for earthing. Fire risk considered negligible with a total loading of under 400 watts, and that spread over a considerable area.

My only slight concern is that the so called amber LED lamps are in fact more of a lemon yellow, and if lit with the cool white lamps might tend to produce a greenish tint.

My input is limited to electrical matters, and not the artistic merits of the proposed production.

[timsabre]

You don't say what the overall effect is intended to be or what type of show it is, but that combination of LED colours will look pretty weird for lighting people. Maybe that is what is wanted.

My experience of using inverters with LED bulbs hasn't been that great, they present a very capacitive load which some inverters won't start up. You can buy 12V LED floodlights very cheaply, and they are IP rated, personally I would be using those with old-fashioned gel to get the colours and not be mucking about with inverters and mains voltage. You can get 12V festoon easily too.

Edited May 20 by timsabre

[Jivemaster]

Have you sorted out the emergency lighting to the satisfaction of the licensing officer and authority? Without those you don't have a show.

Too many LED worklights though bright and water resistant run from an internal 18650 cell and charge from a USB connector which will not last for an evening's entertainment.

I'd be very keen to use white LEDs and gel because LED colours are usually not what they say they are.

Don't neglect that a good battery will cost, a cheap generator from Machine Mart would start at £300.

[timsabre]

To be clear I wasn't talking about LED worklights, but this sort of thing:  a tenner from amazon

 

..also, gel with white LED does not always produce the colour you would expect due to the odd output spectrum of a white LED, but still I think you would do better that way than with the combination of coloured bulbs originally suggested.

Edited May 20 by timsabre

[themadhippy]

As its outdoors does it need to be lit? theres big multi Kw flood that does a pretty good job and when that gets unplugged,depending on setting flamming torches,candles,hurricane lamps can be used to good effect.

[Tom Baldwin]

Re: the chandelier, if by "forward" of the stage, you mean over the front rows of the audience, I would have thought that would have a negative effect on the perceived [relative] brightness on stage - the audience will either be lit by the chandelier themselves, or be looking past the audience members who are lit by it in order to see the stage.

The use of an inverter introduces additional conversion losses - but the alternative (running everything at 12V) might introduce greater resistive losses in the cabling. Without knowing the distances involved, I can't say which is more efficient.

Not sure what sort of vehicle (ICE car? EV car? truck?), but what will the impact of an evening's running be on their batteries? Your load seems to be in the hundreds of watts, which would take a heavy chunk out of a car's battery capacity over any likely runtime.

[adam2]

The total installed load is about 500 watts. The maximum at any time will be half that or less. There is to be no question of use of stage lighting and full house lighting at the same time. The different colours of lamps in the foot lights will not be all used together.

The chosen LED lamps work fine on the inverter, confirmed by practical test.

The chandelier will be between the front row of seats and the front of the stage, at high level.

 

Both vehicles have 24 volt electrical systems and large batteries.

[sunray]

6 hours ago, timsabre said:

To be clear I wasn't talking about LED worklights, but this sort of thing:  a tenner from amazon

 

..also, gel with white LED does not always produce the colour you would expect due to the odd output spectrum of a white LED, but still I think you would do better that way than with the combination of coloured bulbs originally suggested.

I have tried using both CW and WW versions of those with colour Gels and I'd say it's worse than "does not always produce the colour you would expect".

The scene we lit was to simulate the typical 'it aint half hot' style of footlights which worked well, the plan was 'during the interval tip them up and fit green gel to light the white ceiling for Northern Lights. There was insignificant green in the colour spectrum. The final effect was using RGB versions and disconnecting the R&B then letting them run on colour chases.

 

I know a school where a number of such RGB floods were installed and linked with IR relay systems using stick on emitters and shows were controlled by the tiny remote controls. Something like 5 banks produced a surprisingly good result.

[kerry davies]

Since the art of outdoor productions is to start from acceptance of the fact that it must be kept simple or "God The Great LD" will be tempted to provide a showstopping sunset that leaves even the actors gobsmacked I used to use a couple of 300W halogens on tall stands. Switched on before the curtain they had no effect until about 10 pm anyway and "faded in" as the Great LD dimmed the ambient light source. In the UK and even in warmer climes like Spain audiences get cold rather quickly after sunset so it is never going to be dark enough to make fancy lighting remotely noticeable other than in exceptional circumstances like castles, courtyards, enclosed groves etc.

Nature can't be competed with which is why we go outdoors in the first place, work with it rather than against. Hippy's idea of flames rather than festoons is a good one and I quite liked those bamboo oil torches in a garden type ambience. 

[Junior8]

He's right  in every respect. There are about eight weeks in the year where sitting outside in the evening for any length of time is tolerable and the sun is out for most of that time. (If you are lucky - usually its tipping down.)

[alistermorton]

Yup, consider the Minack audience - old hands take suncream and a duvet (as well as a picnic and wine).

[dmxlights]

Kerry Davies,

you have brought back a memory to me on 300-500 halogen floodlights. Here in Ireland we have the GAA and the big final was won by my own county in 2012 I was asked by a friend to light the stage and I used 4x 500w floodlights for front light. I had a someone from a TV station come to me say "I think you need a bit more that them 500w floodlights." I did prove him wrong and also the stage was facing in to the sun well when it did try and show itself from behind the clouds as it rained that day and it was thick misty rain, at lest I had not to worry about rain and the power tripping. The 4 floodlights did light the stage and he did come and say I proved him wrong about the 4x 500w floodlights enough for the front light.

I still use them floodlights today but now they are starting to fall apart. As someone said "they don't do much on till it starts to get dark but they sure can light a stage.

I am trying to find some 500w halogen floodlight fittings but nothing but led ones now. I need them for August for a festival. I am looking at led ones but need them to be dimmable but no luck yet

Edited May 21 by dmxlights

[sandall]

1 hour ago, alistermorton said:

Yup, consider the Minack audience

And the lighting has zilch effect before the interval.

[sunray]

2 hours ago, dmxlights said:

Kerry Davies,

you have brought back a memory to me on 300-500 halogen floodlights. Here in Ireland we have the GAA and the big final was won by my own county in 2012 I was asked by a friend to light the stage and I used 4x 500w floodlights for front light. I had a someone from a TV station come to me say "I think you need a bit more that them 500w floodlights." I did prove him wrong and also the stage was facing in to the sun well when it did try and show itself from behind the clouds as it rained that day and it was thick misty rain, at lest I had not to worry about rain and the power tripping. The 4 floodlights did light the stage and he did come and say I proved him wrong about the 4x 500w floodlights enough for the front light.

I still use them floodlights today but now they are starting to fall apart. As someone said "they don't do much on till it starts to get dark but they sure can light a stage.

I am trying to find some 500w halogen floodlight fittings but nothing but led ones now. I need them for August for a festival. I am looking at led ones but need them to be dimmable but no luck yet

Many of the constant current chips in LED drivers have a PWM input.

I haven't done it myself but I've been told the standard £15 RGB constant voltage modules can be used by taking the signal driving the output FET and inverting it.

[alistermorton]

4 hours ago, sandall said:

And the lighting has zilch effect before the interval.

Usually, definitely yes, unless you get unlucky with overcast weather (or rain for the matinee)

BTDTGTTS.

Edited May 21 by alistermorton